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Ethics in Playing D&D and PF

   
yeah I had a similar thing happen in my IRL 5E game. I had found a pit trap and identified it, drawing the outline on the floor with chalk. I proceeded to the door on the other side. As I was examining the door, listening and searching for traps, another member of the party picks up one of the dead orcs and throws it on the pit trap, "to mark it so no one accidentally triggers it."

So, put trap behind me opens, makes a lot of noise, and the orc on the other side of the door opens it to greet...me. The rest of the combat characters were back across the pit. One hit sends me to 0 hp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanaNari View Post
Both are being douches, but the fault begins with Y for creating a character like that in the first place.

The sort of jackass character who gets off on being a dick to other characters is not, and has never been, welcome in any of my games. If I were the GM, well, I'd never have allowed that personality archetype in the game in the first place. And if a player slips it through... then they get an ultimatum that the next time they pull such a stunt, they're no longer welcome at my table.

I'd rather two players confront each other out of character directly- the way people of integrity do- rather than passive-aggressive crap ruining the game for everyone else because they can't be mature adults.

Now- there can be exceptions where in-character drama is intended and welcome, but those exceptions are few, far between, and agreed upon by all players before the game even begins. Or at least before the situation is taken that direction. Because in-character personality conflicts can be fun. But they need to be handled by mature people, which neither X nor Y in this situation strike me as.
Yeah, this is my view. Unless the campaign/adventure/oneshot/whatever premise specifically involves characters working cross-purposes like this, or everyone agrees ahead of time this sort of play is okay from time time, I'd say this sort of thing is bad. Creating a character such that undermining the whole group would be IC for them is just... well, it's rude to the other players and the GM/DM.

Which is why evil characters are often banned - even though an evil character *could* be pragmatic and work with the party, most people who make evil characters just use them as an excuse to be a dick to the party and say 'It's in character!'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
Which is why evil characters are often banned - even though an evil character *could* be pragmatic and work with the party, most people who make evil characters just use them as an excuse to be a dick to the party and say 'It's in character!'
... My IRL GMs banned me from playing evil characters for an entirely different reason...

I was far too good at it. I never once backstabbed a PC... at least not without it being part of an plot to accomplish a good end.

Once, one of my characters all but literally tore open her blouse, threw herself at the evil overlord, tossed the rest of the party under the bus, and called them all losers. Later on, she slit the BBEG's throat in his sleep and came back to release them. Victory! And all it cost was a fade to black moment because nobody wants to narrate that.

... It then turned out (*cough* railroading bastard *cough*) that wasn't the real bad guy, just a body double... but the point remains that the rest of the heroes forgave my character because, well, they *were* heroes and it *was* a damn good plan that totally should have worked if the GM wasn't being cheap.


Then there was a time during a hostage situation where I shot through the hostage and into the bad guy.


Or circumventing an entire World of Darkness "dungeon crawl" scenario where evil mages were using an insane asylum to generate a half-illusory world full of horrors to fight. Which was solved by pumping poison gas through the building. All the institutionalized people died, and along with them the power to fuel the magical horror pocket dimension that was the entire dungeon.


So. Yeah. I'm not allowed to play 'evil', anymore.

Though I can understand their impulse, I don't see that sort of approach to be worthy of a banning of that playstyle. It's why evil PCs are interesting, IMO, when done right.

Remind me to never play with your IRL GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
Though I can understand their impulse, I don't see that sort of approach to be worthy of a banning of that playstyle. It's why evil PCs are interesting, IMO, when done right.

Remind me to never play with your IRL GM.
No, it was totally fair.

The problem isn't the sociopathy, or the trail of bodies, or crimes the likes of which would make for a great Llamas With Hats episode... all of that was perfectly acceptable, even fun.

The problem is that I had a bad habit of finding ways to circumvent entire story arcs with a single atrocity... which ruins everyone's fun. The GM sees hours of work destroyed in a single paragraph, and all the other players feel like they don't even need to be there because their characters are fast becoming my character's supporting cast.

And I'm mature enough to accept that.

... It's also the reason why I tend not to play Tier 1 classes in D&D anymore. "I Win" buttons are boring. And a cheerful willingness to kill as many people as I have to, as long as one of them is the enemy, is an I win button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanaNari View Post
No, it was totally fair. The problem isn't the sociopathy, or the trail of bodies, or crimes the likes of which would make for a great Llamas With Hats episode... the problem is that I had a bad habit of finding ways to circumvent entire story arcs with a single atrocity... and that ruins the fun for everyone else.
Like I said, I can understand the impulse, I just wouldn't want to play with a GM that made that sort of rule retroactively as a punishment for creative play. Having had players end-run weeks worth of written material with a diplomacy check and a really good speech to go with it, I totally get the desire, just not my personal cup of tea, style-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
I just wouldn't want to play with a GM that made that sort of rule retroactively as a punishment for creative play.
I... think you may be reading the context wrong and assuming a level of hostility that was not in the actual scenario.

The GM and I, along with a third member, had been friends for years. The kinds of friends who had running jokes about seducing each others' relatives and/or ex girlfriends. Ex girlfriends that we'd broken up with the better part of a decade ago. We were about as close as you can expect friends to be.

We handled the other players- the ones who drifted in and out over the years- a little differently than we handled each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanaNari View Post
I... think you may be reading the context wrong and assuming a level of hostility that was not in the actual scenario.

The GM and I, along with a third member, had been friends for years. The kinds of friends who had running jokes about seducing each others' relatives and/or ex girlfriends. Ex girlfriends that we'd broken up with the better part of a decade ago. We were about as close as you can expect friends to be.

We handled the other players- the ones who drifted in and out over the years- a little differently than we handled each other.
I'm not saying it was hostile. And obviously, when you guys have been friends for that long, it probably does work out differently. Like I said, just not by preferred style of things in that regard.

I said "remind me not to play with your IRL GM" with a explicitly because it was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek jokey comment, rather than an attack on your friend's GMing style or anything like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
I said "remind me not to play with your IRL GM" with a explicitly because it was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek jokey comment, rather than an attack on your friend's GMing style or anything like that.
Fair enough. But you'd totally be missing out if I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbageparfait View Post
Let's imagine a scenario where there's a hallway and there's a trap there.
Let's say player Y spots the trap but elects to not share the info with the rest of the party since they think it'd be hilarious to see his teammate trigger it. (And it'd fit with their character's personality. As they'd want to get their new friend hurt so they can swoop in to heal them and help them out and build a closer friendship with them.)

And player X's character walks into the trap and gets angry out of character at player Y for what happened to them.
And player X begins refusing to cooperate with player Y even after player Y helps them out and fixes them up and apologizes after the game.

Is player Y the bad guy here for wanting to enjoy the game and to have fun?
Is player X the bad guy for wanting to hold grudges?
Both are dicks? Both are in the right? Right and wrong are not real and existence is meaningless?

What do you think?
Did this actually happen?







 

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