Pathfinder 2nd Edition is coming to Playtest! - Page 4 - Myth-Weavers


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Pathfinder 2nd Edition is coming to Playtest!

Agreed. It's hard to fault a company that lets you play their entire game and access nearly all of their play options for free.

True that. We'll see if that remains the case once PF2 is actually published, but I suspect it will at least in part. Paizo is clearly not averse to making money off anyone willing to throw it their way and to giving them plenty of options to do so, some of which are pretty much cash grabs, but they also go pretty far to keep their customer base happy and loyal.

Originally Posted by leons1701 View Post
Anyone who thought Paizo was doing it for the love of the game unlike those evil money grubbers at Wizards has clearly not been paying attention at all, so I doubt that this will convince them either.
The cynic in me says that since they clearly learnt very little from the many years of 3.5, it's unlikely that they will have learnt much from a decade of PF. Hell, some of the stuff they've printed more recently is worse than the early PF stuff.

Looking at the Chaos Emerald's quotes, if that's all true, it sounds like there are some significant-ish changes (like the action economy) which may make things better or worse but will certainly make things different and other things which seem to have come out of nowhere (I'm not really sure what's up with the Athletics thing, aside from that fact that tying anything to skill checks tends to end badly). I'd be more interested to see if they've addressed any of the really stupid things which they either kept from 3.5 or actively made worse, like the naffness of most PF feats.

Let's see...
10th level spells and four spell lists... OK. Great. Don't know what that means, practically.
Archetypes and Multiclassing... well it's good that these both exist, though I suspect that this means Paizo's obsession with archetypes has not gone away. Does it mean their deep-seated hatred of multiclassing has gone away? We can only hope.
Combat Manoeuvres that Rock... does this mean they've realised that their combat manoeuvre system sucks? This could be good, I guess. It might mean that martial characters are given some worthwhile options.
Alchemists in Core... Goblin Player Characters... This makes how much difference exactly? You can already have goblin player characters (which, by the way, seem exactly as ridiculous to me as elf player characters or gnome player characters).
Golarion-Infused... so it's going to be tied more closely to the RPG world's most boring* setting? Great...
Innovative Initiative... My work has taught me that "innovative" means "expensive and useless", so I'm not hopeful.
Rebalanced Magic Items... The only things which spring to mind about magic items is that a) the belts/headbands of ability-score boosts was stupid and b) many non-basic Paizo-published magic items were like most Paizo-published feats and really useless for their cost. These are both issues happily ignored if you just keep playing 3.5 instead of PF.
Clean, Modular Information-Based Design... OK this is interesting. Does this mean they're actually going to make sensible changes driven by facts rather than stupid stuff? This would be awesome! I'm not terribly clear on what that actually means, though.

I dunno, I'm probably reading too much into it. It will certainly be interesting to see what they come up with, at the very least.

*Maybe I don't mean that, but I've never really gotten "into" Golarion... I'm not sure that it offers anything much special over Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or Generic Quasi-Medieval Fantasy Setting.

I disagree, only because Golarion has everything. It isn't as iconic as the DnD worlds, but it also doesn't have decades of novels to draw us all in the way DnD did/does.

It has the fantasy of the Forgotten Realms the world over, the vampy Ravenloft stuff covered in Barovia, the advanced science introduced in Iron Gods...generally, it's every fantasy world smushed into one which is exactly the kind of open-ended playground I want when I run a game.

Ah game settings:
Greyhawk, I like. It has the right amount of fantasy that I enjoy. I tried Forgotten realms...I just couldn't get into it, I know why people like FR...I just don't care enough about it. Ravenloft is great and Al Qadim (sadly no support in later editions) was amazing. On more recent settings, Eberron was my favorite, but well seems like, we aren't going to see anything eberron related for a long time or if ever again.

Golarion has enough diversity that I did enjoy it, as mentioned by Raistlin above.

Originally Posted by Raistlinmc View Post
It has the fantasy of the Forgotten Realms the world over, the vampy Ravenloft stuff covered in Barovia, the advanced science introduced in Iron Gods...generally, it's every fantasy world smushed into one which is exactly the kind of open-ended playground I want when I run a game.
Well, yeah, but equally it's just those same things smushed into one. It doesn't add anything extra, and also I usually don't want all those things to exist together. I dunno, I don't really have anything against it, but I don't think I would ever choose to set a game there. I mean, that whole discussion is off-topic a bit, I'm just intrigued to know what "Golarion integration" means (and don't expect it to be terribly brilliant).

Oh golarion integration, probably the usual:

By default the core books use Deities from Golarion and make some references to Golarion. And of course a lot of their supplements take place in Golarion.

I'll admit, I play games in Golarion, but I don't really care about it overmuch. But the exact same thing can be said for Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Ebberon, or Ravenloft. Not one of those settings actually excites me. Even Ravenloft or Ebberon are just too generic to really get me excited about the setting. Golarion is even worse than the rest because it tries so hard to have everything, with each thing kind of stuck in its own area. Especially annoying when the area for something you don't want is right next door to something you're trying to use. Yes Numeria, I'm looking at you. Well, and Ustalav a bit too.

Throwing my 2 cents in, it sounds like they are trying to get the 5th edition audience, since one of their stated features is for all intents and purposes 5e proficiency system

"After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level."

There's also a lot of talk of simplifying the game, which could mean just reducing the amount of trash and steps, but if they actually start removing player options wholesale, I doubt I will like it. 5e already exists, I don't need a second copy of it.

Ugh. I like the 5e system, in 5e. In PF, I fear it's going to look more like 4e with the extreme treadmill and the need to constantly level items to keep up (Not that I don't enjoy 4e for what it is, but I'm not blind to its flaws and that's a major one). If I'm wrong, great. A system that combines something like 5e's streamlined bonuses and bounded accuracy with 3.x character options might be kind of interesting.

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