[Pathfinder] Realistic weapon and armor traits - Page 2 - Myth-Weavers

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[Pathfinder] Realistic weapon and armor traits

   
@Flinch That’s my error, I should have noted 63 lbs was what the DoD states is the “standard” loadout of armor and everything else worn/attached. You can hit 40 lbs with IV multi-impacts with the side plates and kevlar. But yes, certainly can be worn all day still being the main point.

If you want a straight source for PF, go back to AD&D 1e and Combat & Tactics for 2e. Both have a weapon vs. armor chart that covers almost everything PF will have, or close enough. C&T has parry/disarm bonuses etc.

D&D and fantasy systems in general don't portray arms and armor realistically. Remember, it was an arms race. When better armor came out, it replaces the old armor. You wouldn't find people "choosing" a boiled leather cuirass ala the Greeks when chainmail was available. When better swords were invented, old swords were abandoned. Just like today, you don't see some people choosing to fight with swords while some fights with guns. Also, some weapon combos are clearly better. Infantry should fight with spears or pikes and shields, with swords for backups. Fighting without a shield and helmet will just get you dead. Essentially you ought to have a lot less weapon and armor variety, and people should choose the best they can afford.

There actually are reasons why someone might still use boiled leather cuirasses or lesser armor - there is a difference between being a soldier in battle and the kind of specialist character that people are supposed to play in Pathfinder.

Also, past injuries or certain tactical realities might also limit the armor worn - Gustavus Adolphus had an injury in his collarbone that made it impossible for him to wear anything other than leather armor.

Also depends on where the characters are - one might be able to carry a rapier or a sword into a place once can't carry a spear.

Weapons technology is partially an arms race, but it's also a matter of tactics, formations, experience - there's a reason not everyone adopted the English Longbow, even after battles like Crecy and Agincourt, because A) Knightly classes despised it and B) the process for training such excellent Longbowmen (who really should be able to do better attack rolls and damage than PF rules could conceivably allow all things said and done) was exceedingly difficult. The Hoplite was an unstoppable soldier in the right formation, but not everyone copied it at all or exactly and still did pretty well against it in various contexts.

The arms race is not a perpetual climb upwards but also movement sideways, downwards, and sometimes just moving in a circle for a few centuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
There actually are reasons why someone might still use boiled leather cuirasses or lesser armor - there is a difference between being a soldier in battle and the kind of specialist character that people are supposed to play in Pathfinder.

Also, past injuries or certain tactical realities might also limit the armor worn - Gustavus Adolphus had an injury in his collarbone that made it impossible for him to wear anything other than leather armor.

Also depends on where the characters are - one might be able to carry a rapier or a sword into a place once can't carry a spear.

Weapons technology is partially an arms race, but it's also a matter of tactics, formations, experience - there's a reason not everyone adopted the English Longbow, even after battles like Crecy and Agincourt, because A) Knightly classes despised it and B) the process for training such excellent Longbowmen (who really should be able to do better attack rolls and damage than PF rules could conceivably allow all things said and done) was exceedingly difficult. The Hoplite was an unstoppable soldier in the right formation, but not everyone copied it at all or exactly and still did pretty well against it in various contexts.

The arms race is not a perpetual climb upwards but also movement sideways, downwards, and sometimes just moving in a circle for a few centuries.
All true, but nothing that invalidates the general point I've made. Exigencies and training do influence weapon and armor choice, but D&D and pathfinder are a mishmash of various historical periods. Regardless of injuries and so forth, one would not find someone anyone sporting a Greek Cuirass or a bronze sword in the late medieval period anymore than one finds someone choosing a flint lock today. They may modify their arms and armor, but they modify modern weaponry. One needs to remember that modern applies to the time period one is in. Ancient arms and armor were discarded but subsequent time periods for a reason.

No one in D&D or pathfinder's baseline settings running around with Hoplons, greek style cuirrasses or even Greeks style hoplite spears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylia Quilor View Post
No one in D&D or pathfinder's baseline settings running around with Hoplons, greek style cuirrasses or even Greeks style hoplite spears.
Those were examples. The point is that once full plate came on the scene, older armors such as chainmail (beyond reinforcement of joints and so forth) became obsolete (of course this was according to price and role in combat). The same point applies to weaponry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farland View Post
Those were examples. The point is that once full plate came on the scene, older armors such as chainmail (beyond reinforcement of joints and so forth) became obsolete (of course this was according to price and role in combat).
Chainmails were discarded right until they proved really valuable to the British participating in the Zulu War, and on several other occasions. Also to people who were afraid of being assaulted by assassins (including with firearms), like some political figures in the 18th and 19th century.

It's an arms race, true, but there's a place for seemingly older modes of protection.







 

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