Tempest, a clash of magic - Mutants and Masterminds interest check - Page 3 - Myth-Weavers


Tempest, a clash of magic - Mutants and Masterminds interest check

If this is still a thing; you had me at "magic" and "M&M3e."

Edit: That said, PL 8+ w/ non-reduced points or bust. Especially in a magic-heavy game. What's the point of advertising for a magic-heavy game, and then gimping the generation rules to the levels that explicitly say they are for non-powered street-level thug heroes who rely on fisticuffs and gadgetry to survive their own attempts at heroism? If you want to run a dirt-level non-powered game, that's fine, but the bait-and-switch of "a clash of magic" followed by "oh yeah but you're PL 6 and can't afford to actually do any" would be... untoward.

I'm currently building the game thread right now, so the game will be a thing in the next day or two. That being said, this is a game of singular elemental users who are the first of their breed to grow into their powers since medieval ages. Why do you say this has to be 8+?

It is worth noting that, generally speaking, PL 8 is sort of the rock bottom of "More than a human who has time and money and training/talent can achieve." at least according too the games rule books.

Some people do run super stuff at PL 8 or lower, but it does generally kramp a lot of the style/make it hard to convincingly BE super enough for it to actually matter. I.E., super enough that literally any ding bat who cares to spend six months drinking bulk up powder + Eating Red Meat + jogging on the treadmill and pumping Iron at the gym on a regular mid to high intensity basis + Taking a Krav Mega or Sambo or Brizilian Ju-jitsu or Boxing class 3-5 nights a week,

Or go too literally anywhere that sells guns, buy a pump shotgun and/or a revolver, a couple of cases of ammo, and take a few beginners firearms courses over the course of 2 or 3 weeks,

Can't annihilate you with fairly trivial ease.

I dunno... a sort of occult, "street magic" themed game, for example, could still have magic as quite a prominent feature without having to have people with high power levels throwing it around. M&M lets you buy for only a small number of character points powers which would still be pretty incredible in the real world, even if they're not of overwhelming value in combat scenarios - 2 ranks lets me speak all languages(!), 4 ranks gives me a short-range telepathy, 2-4 ranks lets me commune with spirits, I can teleport through solid obstacles (albeit not very far) for only a few points, see the future for 4, time travel for 2-6, hell, I can fly for a single point!

Plus, the (magic) descriptor doesn't cost any points whatsoever. At whatever power level, I'd normally be spending points on some kind of attack, no doubt - well, I can have a "magic blast" for a similar cost to a super-punch or a laser pistol.

Admittedly, street magic doesn't sound quite like the original pitch for this, which was more elemental-themed and implied a more "high magic" setting. Point is, though, that it's more theme than points.

I also disagree that PL8 is "rock bottom" - PL8 heroes are more masked vigilantes, street fighters, etc, but they're still super. Regular humans are probably more like PL5, assuming they're not mooks or commoners. I mean, why shouldn't characters - in some settings/stories, at least - feel threatened by "tough guy" foes or people with actual guns? I'm still a superhero if I can summon levitating balls of goo, but that doesn't give me immunity to bullets (in fact, I often find it difficult to rationalise characters having defences at the PL limits, which are expected and almost required in M&M)... though, immunity to bullets is by the way only 5 points, which is not exactly cheap for a PL8 or below with reduced PP but it's not really expensive either.

Let's just remind ourselves that the average adult has a Strength of 0, with a 4 being what a "Highly Gifted" person might have (it's feasible for a non-super to have up to a 7, if we go by the guidelines, but frankly unlikely) - this means that their attacks with common weapons like brass knuckles, knifes or clubs have a damage effect of rank ~2, with 6 being about the limit of what we'd expect (without Power Attack etc, anyway). Assuming an even split between attack roll and effect rank, that's normal for a PL 2-6 character. PL8s are still punching a notable amount above even "Highly Gifted" people. Pistols do 2-4 damage, which is similar.

Bearing that perspective in mind, PL8 is low-power for superheroes but is still well above "rock bottom" and hugely above average humans. However, the pitch of this game was for special task forces, which feel like they ought to be well above average humans, too - hence, I really don't think that going any lower than PL8 would be sensible and one can certainly argue for above it.

I kind of like the idea of reduced points, though. One thing that kind of bugs me about M&M is the whole power level thing - it's great for maintaining balance, but it does so by sort of homogenising everyone. Like I said, you pretty much have to have your attacks and defences hitting those PL limits, or you're artificially hamstringing yourself. Reduced points type mechanism might force people to make a choice between having all the powers they want and hitting those limits, so we might see people shaving the odd point off a defence or attack here or there to make up the numbers, which adds a little bit more variety and believably. My concern would be that hitting those caps will still be mechanically the best choice and so, actually, you'll just wind up with characters who are very narrowly focused and don't have (m)any utility powers, which might not be a great thing. I'd probably lean towards charging extra for the top ranks instead to give people a (fairer) choice between specialisation and versatility but I've never tried it myself so I don't know how it would work out.

How about PL 9 with reduced points, or reduced points but you get bonus "background" points for skills or advantages? In practice that might just equate to the same number of points again, if people were going to buy those anyway, but perhaps helps people round characters out a bit.

I'll build for whatever power level you decide, but I will echo SageBahumut and theFred regarding the suggest PL.

I like theFred's idea of PL8+ with limited points.

One thing I like about M&M is that you still have some flexibility - L1 characters in D&D, say, tend to be pretty boring. In M&M, a lot of points are taken up just on your main attack and defences and things, and so proportionally less points need to be spent at a lower PL - in that regard the PL doesn't actually make any difference. This does mean that the left-over points for spending on utility powers and things are much fewer, but whilst it's more challenging to build for and leaves you with characters who are weaker and more limited overall, you've still got rather more wiggle-room than you do in a system where you have like one feat to pick and that's about it.

But yeah, below PL8 feels too little, and anyway you need to square that away with the pitch of the game, which does sound more like a normal, PL10 premise.

Sorry Shadewe, seems like you're out voted on pl. I think I'll do a pl 10 campaign at pl 8 points. Because I do want the characters to grow into more and more powerful beings, but I don't want pl leaps to happen very often.

oo, pl10 with 120 points. That IS interesting and would greatly encourage specialisations. Would we still be encouraged to hit the pl10 caps (10/10 dodge/toughness), or would it be more like hit the pl8 caps with extra focus [eg defense] (8/10 dodge/toughness)? Would trade-offs still be alright in that situation (8/12 dodge/toughness)?

Would you have a set of guidelines on what the "magic" that can be used, os ir that all up to our interpretation? Like, the elements are like Avatar bending (complete with martial arts?), or is is like fire generation, then anything you can really think of as long as it makes kinda sense (I fly because I use fire as jet propulsion despite how much force will need to be emitted to reach this)?

And would you have examples of what differentiates "spirit" magic? Is it just a bunch of spiritual communications? offensive? Support?

Also, will you be using some kind of advantage system or complications for certain elements? Like, fire users have the weakness complication vs Water [it's hard to generate heat when soaked], while Air users have a weakness to Fire [hard to manipulate heated air] etc...


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