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Twin build

That's a pretty good build. But Unchained Rogues get Weapon Finesse for free at level one, so I don't need to use a feat or talent for it. And I was thinking of going a Disarm/Steal route rather than Feint/Steal for Dashing.

Well with Dashing Thief Swashbuckler they sorta pigeonholed two of your class abilities to rely on Feinting/Stealing, hence why I suggested the Improved Feint/Feint partner combo along with stealing.

If would rather focus on the Disarm route might I suggest:

Human Dashing Thief Swashbuckler
Feats: Combat Expertise (1st), Improved Disarm (Human), Agile Maneuvers (3rd), Improved Steal (4th - Swash Bonus), Outflank (5th), Quick Steal (7th), Greater Disarm/Steal (8th - Swash Bonus)

Human Phantom Thief Rogue
Feats: Combat Expertise (1st), Improved Steal (Human), Agile Maneuvers (3rd), Outflank (5th), Graceful Steal (7th), Greater Steal (8th - Rogue Talent: Combat Trick)

Replacing Feint Partner with Outflank still gives a sizable boost to both Dashing & Phantom's CMB checks.

If you plan on being in flanking a lot, one of the two should pick up a +1 Menacing Spiked Gauntlet or some such. Increasing that +2 flanking bonus to +4 (for both people!) for 8000gp is a steal.

Outflank requires a BAB of +4. Rogues don't get that until level 6. But since Phantom gets a Rogue Talent then and can Combat Trick multiple times, it only pushes it back one level from your plan. Dashing can still take it at 5 and just not get the benefit until level 6.

Ok, so in order to regain panache, Dashing needs to either steal an item that's worth at least 100 gold, or crit with his piercing weapon. I'm really liking the idea of Butterfly's Sting to help him with that since for the first few levels, he'll have a hard time stealing. Well, finding an item to steal that's worth that much. And I do want to be able to do Dex-to-Damage at some point.

So I'm thinking of giving Butterfly's Sting to Phantom at level one instead of Improved Steal, and just use my second level Rogue Talent for Combat Trick to get Improved Steal.

The only feats to give Dex-to-Damage are Fencing Grace, Slashing Grace, and Dervish Dance. I think there's one for a starknife too, but I digress. Fencing and Slashing both require Weapon Focus. Dervish Dance does not. Now, I don't want to use a rapier for Dashing as Phantom will be using one and I don't want them to have identical weapons. Being a human with Weapon Finesse as a class feature, I can easily get a Grace feat at level one, but it will take up all the level one feat slots. But although Dervish Dance doesn't require Weapon Focus, it does require 2 ranks in Perform, so I can't get it at level one.

So here's the thing, when do I want Phantom to have Dex-to-Damage? At level one or level 3? Phantom will be getting it at level 3 as a class feature. Since I don't want him to use a rapier, I either take Slashing Grace at level one so he can regain panache, or start him off with a basic piercing weapon and switch it out for a slashing one at level 3 when I take the feat.

If I goes with Slashing Grace instead of Dervish Dance, I'm getting him a cutlass. Its stats are the same as the scimitar and rapier.

I just double checked the Dashing Thief's page and they don't have any bonus feats. Instead, they get Rogue Talents. The character's levels in Dashing Thief is treated as effective Rogue levels to determine level-based talent effects. Now, I can use Combat Trick to get a Combat Feat, but I can only do that once with Dashing. And there's one talent that gives Improved Steal as a bonus feat.

Now, with Dashing, the only thing affecting when he gets Dex-to-Damage is when I choose to take it. I can get it at level one with Slashing Grace, level 3 with Slashing Grace, or level 3 with Dervish Dance. He can have his level dip in Bard at character level 2 and not effect that at all. But with Phantom, she gets Dex-to-Damage at Rogue level 3 as a class feature. Level dipping in Bard before then would slow it down. So she either takes it at level 4, or doesn't take it at all.

Now, to use a whip to steal requires Improved Whip Mastery so it can wrap around small objects. That requires Weapon Focus and Whip Mastery. Agile Maneuvers would be needed for Dex to CMB. Graceful Steal would give the ability to use Steal on a bag or other container that you can reach into outside of combat. Quick Steal would allow you to replace an attack at full BAB with a Steal attempt. It requires +6 BAB, so you would still have the second attack left. I don't think that Greater Steal is needed. Dashing still gets one bonus feat at Swashbuckler level 5, Improved Critical.

Dashing gets a Rogue Talent every 4 Swashbuckler levels. If I want him to use a whip, I have 2 choices - burn a feat on Exotic Proficiency or dip a level. I think dipping is a better choice as Dashing has limited feats and a bard dip will give him Bardic Performance and spells. That pushes back the Talents by one level, but not the feats.

I double checked the rules for Agile Maneuvers and I don't need it for Disarm and Trip with Weapon Finesse in play. Dashing won't be doing any other maneuvers so Agile Maneuvers won't be needed.

So I'm thinking of this -
1: Weapon Finesse (Class feature), Weapon Focus Cutlass (human feat), Slashing Grace
3: Combat Expertise
S4: Combat Swipe - Improved Steal
5: Broken Wing Gambit
S5: Improved Critical (class feature)
7: Weapon Focus Whip
S8: Combat Trick - Whip Mastery
9: Improved Whip Mastery

Honestly, this build wouldn't be that much different if it wasn't a twin build. Just take out Broken Wing Gambit and move the other feats up, taking Improved Disarm or something at level 9. Maneuver builds are pretty feat intensive.

As a Rogue, Phantom will be able to take Talents every other level. As a Phantom, she can take Combat Trick more than once, so she has feats to spare.

Rather than splitting your resources between the whip and the cutlass, why not just focus primarily on the whip? You can push the level of Bard to an earlier level, where it'll remain relevant for longer, and take Whip Mastery earlier, as well.

In addition, just a general recommendation, take Dirty Fighting instead of Combat Expertise. It's just outright better in all practical facets.

That could work. Dirty Fighting would be better for this build and Slashing Grace applies to a whip as well as a cutlass so Dashing would still get panache for crits with it. I was planning at taking the level of bard at character level 2.

But even then, it only pushes the feats up by one level, unless I remove Broken Wing Gambit completely. I suppose I could forgo Improved Steal as I would be doing it at reach.

How about this build?

1: Weapon Finesse (Class feature), Weapon Focus Whip (human feat), Slashing Grace
3: Whip Mastery
S4: Combat Trick - Dirty Fighting
5: Improved Whip Mastery
S5: Improved Critical (class feature)
7: Improved Disarm
S8: Combat Swipe - Improved Steal

I'd be taking penalty to attacks with the whip until level 2 when I take the level in bard. Starting off with a level in bard would be a bad idea as I wouldn't have either Slashing Grace or Weapon Finesse until later.


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