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Beguiler DnD 3.5 -- What?

Beguiler DnD 3.5 -- What?

Okay I think this is the first time I have every looked at this class that was outlined for DnD 3.5 and as I was looking this over said -- wow... then I compared it to the sorcerer and said holy cow... This class takes elements of the bard and rogue and adds them to Sorcerer without really removing much of anything from the Sorcerer --- is it just me? I mean where is the balancing elements of this class -- oh you get a limited list of spells yeah but sheesh you get a heck of lot more spells known per level than a Sorcerer of the equivalent level so I do not see a real detriment there... can any of you other DnD 3.5 experts give me some incites on this class and/or is this class just as broken as it seems?

It's not that big a deal. Same number of Spells/day, but their spells are mostly utility/non-damaging spells. Also no buffs except self-targeting, if I remember correctly.

A roguish kind without SA, but having that Cloaked Casting wonderful ability. Plus, they suffer a bit from MAD, needing Dex, Int AND Cha for good spells and good AC.

Not overpowered in my opinion. Adjusted to be in balance with full casters? Maybe...

Okay first thanks for the input but you say there are balanced -- how can you lay them down side by side with a Sorcerer and say they are equal. At what point does the Sorcerer become better --- the only thing I can see that the Sorcerer might have on the other class is a bit of versatility -- are we saying that that little bit of versatility balances out ALL the obvious benefits allotted to Beguiler??

Yes they have basically the same number of spells per day BUT -- the Beguiler gets to wear and cast spells in Light Armor, the Beguiler gets at least 2x the number of Spells Known, the Beguiler gets over 10x as the number of Feats, the Beguilers Skills List and Skill points per level far out strips that of the Sorcerer ----- I fail to see any balance or equality here -- please I am seriously asking where is the balance/equality that you say is there -- that is no big deal??

Originally Posted by DeJoker View Post
are we saying that that little bit of greater versatility balances out ALL the obvious minor benefits allotted to Beguiler??
Versailty is very important. Beguilers have few tools to fight undead, for example (or anyone/thing immune to mind affecting spells), whereas light armor is pretty much useless (just extend mage armor). Beguilers also don't get access to many must have spells (like grease) and cheese like shapeshift, gate, planar binding etc. It's not a bad class by far, and the sorceror has a few of it's own problems, but it is not broken by any means.

Edit: btw, this thread is getting close to becoming a tier discussion. I'd advise you read through the tiers found here if you want to know how powerful the beguiler really is.

For convenience, here's the write-up of why the Beguiler is considered a Tier 3 class. If nothing else it highlights the drawbacks the class has compared to a sorcerer. And as Payne mentioned, Beguilers are slightly MAD, while Sorcerers can get away with just boosting Charisma and nothing else (even Dex can take a back seat with a few abjurations and other defensive spells).

At Bandersnatch's warning/head's up, I'll refrain to post any more reasons as to why I think them balanced. I'm available to answer by PM, though.

But yeah, basically, what he said.

Tier discussion line has been crossed.

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