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Damage on a miss - Not D&D next

   
Damage on a miss - Not D&D next

The enigmatic nature of HPs in early D&D leaves much room for interpretation. Looking back, a hit is the culmination of 6 seconds of fighting and represents not necessarilly wounding the target, but a combination of exhaustion, bruises, blood loss and actual wounds. Why not add a mechanic for fighters to do damage on a miss if it falls within a range like a critical in 3.5. The ... it wasn't the best shot but it still took some toll on the foe. It gives fighters a distinct advantage, and appears to fit well with the abstract notion of hit points.

I myself am trying to move away from hit = wound old school D&D mechanic, without adding a separate Life Point/Wound Point pool alongside HPs. Crypts and Things has a Con based Life Pool mechanic with HPs representing the rest - tired, beat up, slow etc. In C&T exhaust the HPs go to Con..lose con = serious wounds and death. Not my first choice, but a stab back at what HPs and Life/Wounds represent. This is by no means a new idea, and has been rehashed by numerous folks over the years.

Work with me if you like, could wound on a miss work with HPs? How would you go about it? Would you even bother to try?

Not looking for arguments, just points of view and some help.

Uh. 3.5 has this thing called "touch armor class". That's almost exactly what you're describing. Attacks that do damage even if they should *technically* have been beaten by the armor.

If you don't hit the touch AC, then the attack truly missed. If you make touch but not actual AC, then you hit, but the armor did its job.

If it hits AND does damage, the the armor didn't do its freakin' job.

I actually like the idea of vitality points and physical points, however it is done. Then a crit is not double damage but physical damage. It worked well in Star Wars D20. Not all things new are bad, just most.

File vitality points in with ascending AC under the good.

Have you seen the DCC [Dungeon Crawl Classics] Warrior ability 'Mighty Deed of Arms'? Not exactly what you are talking about, but maybe food-for-thought?

If I were going to go the 'wound on a near-hit' route I'd probably make it a Fighter only ability and include the Con-damage as well (or something similar to Warhammer Fantasy with negative HP being critical hits that cause other problems, including but not limited to losing body parts).

Oh maybe I should expand on my thinking about the 'Mighty Deed of Arms' thing:

I was thinking that instead of damage on a near-hit a Fighter could do something else appropriately action-y like knocking a foe over, pushing them back, pinning clothing to a wall, blinding them for a round, disarming them, and so on (see the examples in DCC).

TanaNari - sadly do not know my 3.x well, but that is a neat mechanic. Reduced damage for fighters who hit but do not penetrate armor is promising. Thanks.

BW - I like them too, but instead of them stacking - run out of HPs go to Wounds, would like to see something were both can be depleted by a truly successful attack. Seems to add too much complexity though. Every hit has to be examined to see which pools are to be reduced.

Ren- DCC is a great game, the funnel can be amazingly entertaining. Mighty deeds is not a bad idea maybe subject the target to an AC penalty or a minus to it's attacks.

BW - Interested in how would you would run HP / Life Point construct. Just as a mental exercise.
Ren - Lets flesh out Mighty Deeds a bit -see if it goes anywhere.

Would it make more sense as a single feat or as a tree of feats? Would those feats be fighter exclusive or only care about BAB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrazor View Post
The enigmatic nature of HPs in early D&D leaves much room for interpretation. Looking back, a hit is the culmination of 6 seconds of fighting and represents not necessarilly wounding the target, but a combination of exhaustion, bruises, blood loss and actual wounds.
It does not. It's pretty straightforward.

To introduce poison into a person's blood stream by way of a poisoned weapon, one must injure the person with it. Not tire them out, not allow them to lose their blood, not even bruise them, but actually take the blade and make part of it go into the other guy.
Any HP damage with a poisoned bladed weapon will introduce poison to the other person's blood stream.
Ergo: if a weapon is theoretically capable of drawing blood, then any HP damage involves the drawing of that blood. Not exhaustion, not bruises, not blood loss but putting part of it into the other guy's flesh.

13th Age has not only miss damage but also scaling attack dice. You're second level? Roll two dice. Fourth? Roll 4. I'm not overly familiar with the system, but I have started playing it recently and am enjoying it. I haven't seen/looked for arguments about balance between magic and melee or anything along those lines, and my character is still only level 2, but maybe something to look into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrazor View Post
HPs representing the rest - tired, beat up, slow etc.
There was another game that did something similar and I can't remember it. Derp. I remember looking at their forums back in 2005-ish and how they had set up their HP mechanic was a fatigue-until-damage system. I don't think it was a d20 based-system though. Hrm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrazor View Post
Ren - Lets flesh out Mighty Deeds a bit -see if it goes anywhere.
My idea was along the lines of a "partial success": you didn't damage your opponent, but since you are a badass fighter-type and you hit them, but didn't get through their armor: you knock them over, or push them back, or blind them for a round, or whathaveyou.

The two AC values thing was in Palladium as well if I remember correctly. So each character had two AC values: one represented their unarmored dexterity related defense and the other for their armored value. So if you got over the dexterity based defense, but not over the armored defense, you hit them and did damage to their armor. So each character essentially had two HP values: one for them and the other for their armor.







 

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