Mage and Werewolf do not seem to really play nice with one another in cWoD... - Myth-Weavers


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Mage and Werewolf do not seem to really play nice with one another in cWoD...

Mage and Werewolf do not seem to really play nice with one another in cWoD...

From a lore perspective you'd almost think the two were really close and meant to be compatible. But they're just....

Werewolf presents a world where you have furry captain planets running around trying to stave off the apocalypse by any means necessary. You have a variety of spirit foes who represent societal ills. Killing the Maeljin of Balefire will actually make radiation go away with only small, weak examples. Though this is all but impossible to do in your standard game of werewolf. Because it's kind of like the Imperium of Man, only with werewolves. You have a stagnating hidebound society of idealistic psychopaths trying to defend their world and way of life at any cost.

Then you bring in mage.... well yes, they have the same triat of universal forces. They believe in the same possibly evil stasis that's choking out creativity and replacing it with a single universal constant, and also in it's fascist supporters. They believe in the same all consuming force of darkness and entropy, and it's mad servants. They believe in the same force of creativity and dynamism, holding up a certain level of creation and imagination in a world that is becoming rigid and decayed.

But the approach taken is very different. While there certainly are Hidebound mages, you have factions like the Sons of Ether. Who are decidedly optimistic in nature. And then you get into the simple disagreements. A sufficiently powerful mage can simply create. There are few bounds or limits to what a mage can do in the right circumstances. Up to and including the creation of whole new realities. A node in mage is never going to run dry. It might be stolen by the technocracy or a Rival Cabal. But it's not going to simply.... stop giving quintessence. The threat is never the world crumbling down around them, but the enemy. The threat is the guy on the other side, not the world they're fighting over. Because they can create worlds if they want. The world isn't as important as the people.

And to top it all off, the mages have abilities that make things that are hard for the Garou to do absolutely trivial.

This is not to say that Garou are weak, they have their advantages and a knock down drag out fight between them is anyones guess. But a mage can simply reach across reality and take things. Many of the tasks required to slay the Maeljin Incarna are not only doable, but absolutely trivial for a mage in the know. You have werewolves struggling to defend caerns as sites of power. When a sufficiently powerful mage can simply will one into existence. And indeed, the entire basic concept of mage, despite being deceptively compatible with Werewolf, pushes a very different story.

In werewolf, Humans are the champions and children of the Weaver. The force of stasis. And yet in mage, each human, but quite specifically not Garou. Is capable of awakening as a mage. Each has an Avatar. And this avatar can go any of four ways. Kinfolk Mages can even learn Garou gifts and fuel them with quintessence. In mage the world is a result of what the humans in it believe and want.

They simply two drastically different stories. Despite their apparent similarities.

Really, none of the 'classic' World of Darkness splats are supposed to work together. A few use similar worldviews and use the same names for close-to-similar things, but you're not supposed to have one of the Forsaken working with a member of the Masquerade who's moonlighting with someone seeking Ascension. They don't work well together because they're not supposed to.

I could believe that if it weren't for the fact that mage basically sets you up with a way to play a mage in both Vampire and Werewolf. In the form of Ghoul Mages and Kinfolk Mages respectively.

Well, one of the things I've always believed is that even if Mages can create, they can't do it the same way that a Gaian Garou would create a caern. Heck, I'd think that a Garou would think that any mage-created node of power is of the Wyrm, that it lacks a fundamental connection to Gaia that the mage simply does not possess, even if their worldviews were similar.

That probably is what many of them might believe. The problem is it's not true. Nodes can be aspected towards any of the big three of mage. Or neutral, creating raw quintessence rather than aligned tass.

Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
I could believe that if it weren't for the fact that mage basically sets you up with a way to play a mage in both Vampire and Werewolf. In the form of Ghoul Mages and Kinfolk Mages respectively.
Its merely a recognition that some groups want to go against the grain of stand-alone games so they throw some mechanics into the mix for them. I generally run stand-alone Werewolf or Mage or Vampire and even use rules from other splat-books (the rules for vampires are there...why not use them for werewolf enemies?) The fact remains is it still a quintessentially Werewolf or Vampire game despite the additions.

For those who want to mix and match with greater enthusiasm though there is some support but White Wolf always left working out the complicated game interactions to the Storyteller attempting to do this.

If you really want to see how convoluted everything is, have a peek at the Midnight Circus supplement. They try to get them all working together in an official capacity, but even there it's a cluster. At best, you have to be intimately familiar with all five of the major... -- hell, I don't even know what to call them. And even then, they still had to introduce some new mechanics/concepts in order to get them to kinda-sorta-but-not-really work together.

Midnight Circus wasn't too bad if you kept it to a single splat. I ran it with a group of Fera once which left me with the ability to just use common WtA mechanics for the weirdness in the circus. Better than trying to juggle 5 different sets of game mechanics anyway.

Most groups saved themselves the Sanity roll and just made the world "as is" according to the book of whatever the group was. So in a Werewolf group, mages are humans that have spiritual powers like Theurges and mostly just unwittingly cause trouble. In Mage, werewolves are magic-drinking, teleporting boogeymen that can appear out of nowhere and wishbone the archmage in half before he knows what's what.

It saved a lot of headaches just separating the two. Especially when you consider things like Pentex, the Wyrm and the Technocracy.

Playing a group of werewolves trying to prevent the construction of a nuclear waste dump seems pretty trivial when, at the same time, the Technocracy is using their fleet of starships to fight aliens near Jupiter - aliens that could wipe out life on earth with their mega-weapons.

Like others have said, it just becomes a cluster-F. Save yourself the headache and just keep the worlds separate. Really.

Well part of the issue is I'm a primary Technocracy player honestly. And there's a lot of little hints and whatnot that point towards werewolf lore, so I decided to take a look to figure out what I was dealing with... and well... Y'know the rest.


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