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Titanium Turtles

Oh my comment wasn't that one was better than the other, but actually that they made them a lot more even this time around.

Not to derail too much, but sword and board used to be pretty much worthless.
The game is more defensive all around, and creatures don't have obvious "exploits" to them anymore.

Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
Just how many monsters do you think are almost worthless in a fight against a party because they are titanium turtles?
Allow me to explain...
Everybody here is familiar with phrases like "glass cannon", characters or monsters that can deal tremendous amounts of damage or devastating effects like stunning, paralysis, even death with the wave of the hand, at the expense of their defensive bottom line. Lousy AC, poor saves, and low HP. Nothing's free, and if a monster goes all out on the offense the defense stands to suffer, sometimes severely.
I don't want to make this a very long post, so I'll just give you a prime example of the glass cannon's monster counterpart, the Death Hag. This is just one example of many, and disrespecting women has got to be through.)
16th level soldier, thousands of XP on the line. Should be a pretty hardcore monster. This is over level 15, so it stands to reason that it should be in the upper tier of them, verging on elite.
170+ HP, and AC and all saves above 30.
+2 to its own saves. For a Hag that seems pretty burly. At any rate it blows its 3.5 counterpart away.
Claw attack: Good chance to hit, makes healing and healing surges IMPOSSIBLE. Nice cookie.
How much average damage?
Lets look at its next power. The flashy, whiz bang, wow-wee! power.
Its only usable 50 percent of the time, and is on a monster in the upper teens. Close burst 3, necrotic damage, attacks a generally low defense at +22, and for every creature it hits it heals itself.
This should really cause a party some grief. So what sort of heinous, OH MY GOD! AND JIMMY'S DRAGONBORN CAN'T EVEN BE HEALED!!! damage does it deal?
9. 9 stinking damage. It almost has twice the levels of the average damage it does with its marquee power.
Come on! Get real! Characters should easily be able to spend a healing surge to heal 2 to 3 times that, no optimization. At all.
What gives?
This creature is a joke. A joke.
You look around, and you'll find plenty of stinkers, plenty of titanium turtles just like this.
All cock and no...
Well, unless it's a solo monster, that seems reasonable. It takes hits, throws out some nasty afflictions, and lets its buddies do the real damage.

Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
Yes, and where pray tell is this real damage coming from?
I'm just not seeing it.
You can't look at monsters (Except Solos) or characters in a vacuum.

Even still.
Look at say, a displacer beast.
Oh hell, 4 of them.
Its just a deadly dull fight, a war of attrition.

Except that combats go much faster in 4e than in 3.x, in general. This probably won't be reflected in PbP, since its speed is determined by posting frequency and not how long it takes to resolve one person's turn, but in tabletop gaming, fights that last 10 rounds take 20 minutes, not an hour or two.

You know, 12/9 damage isn't all that bad when it prevents you from healing. If it did 1/4 of a guys hit points on average they would still have 7-10 rounds of taking no damage by using healing surges.

You are limited in the number of healing surges you can use.

Does it prevent others from healing them?


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