Nizell - The Mage Flayer

[Michael]

10 hours ago, Grand Poobah said:

@Michael Thanks.

I was looking at taking rogue and PRC's etc with arcane trickster (to get sneak attack/ spells/steal spell advance) but kinda laoth the complexity and was wondering if you would accept this feat (think it is less chunky than the stacking feats ). I also can't bring myself to make her take craven.

 

Simple Idea:

VICIOUS TRICKSTER:  Unlike other spell thief tricksters your sneak attack progresses is as a rough equal to you spellthief level.

Too powerful. There's an improved sneak attack feat that gives +1d6, what you are suggesting is much stronger. I'd allow you to take the improved sneak attack with out the pre rerq of already having 8d6, but you can only take it once.

[Grand Poobah]

Thought so .,..and thanks....

[Grand Poobah]

 

@Michael I started this before the above posts but I just wanted to put this on the table ….and to bed.

I posted something similar last game cycle.

 

Nizell is a “Trickster spellthief.” She looses some features and gains bard casting as below and full caster level.

There is a great Feat: Master spellthief for standard spellthief builds that brings their caster level up from 1/2 and allows arcane and spellthief stacking. For the whole it is a powerful feat but more for dual casting e.g sorcerer 10/spellthief 3 becomes two 13th level casters and steals like 13th level spellthief. For a trickster however where you want to just advance one caster class and already have full caster level it looses most of its shine.

What I was wanting to suggest is a way to regain some of the features lost in the flavour of the Mater Spellthief.

 

 

FYI-----Trickster [Spellthief ACF]

Loose : 2 skill points per level and some skills

Loose:  trapfinding

Loose : You do not gain additional sneak attack bonus dice at 4th or higher levels.

Get : spells as a bard of your spellthief level

Get : caster level equals your spellthief level (rather than half your spellthief level).

 

FYI------MASTER SPELLTHIEF [Existing Feat]

Get : spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes  for level of spell you can steal.

Get : caster level equals your spellthief level (rather than half your spellthief level).

Get : spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes  caster level for both classes

Get: No arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen in light armor

 

Proposing Master Trickster.

MASTER TRICKSTER [Suggested alternative]

Get : Your spellthief caster level replaces spellthief leve (but never more than you HD) for the level of spelll you can steal or other existing features  you have gained that scale with level (e.g hamper magic, storage).   You gain no new features from spellthief class unless you take spellthief levels that grant them.

Get : If you take spellthief levels you regain the standard spellthief additional sneak attack bonus dice at 4th and higher levels however this does NOT benefit from the above feature as it does not scale to spellthief levels.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Grand Poobah (see edit history)

[Michael]

Wouldn't this mean that you take this feat and 1 lvl of spell thief then progress as any other caster and basically get 99% of what a spellthief actually does, basically for free?

 

[Grand Poobah]

The official feat MASTER SPELLTHIEF [Existing Feat] allows you to take 1 level spellthief and then add a full caster class and then stack for level of spell you can steal ....spells stolen being either spells or spell like abilities.. So you could take say 1ST/10sorcerer can steal spells like 11th level spellthief, cast at 11th level for both classes and have access to spells as a 10th level sorcerer.

What I proposed was NOT to allow the other classes just spellthief......OK just looked at the wording and crap I was not specific enough. See edit.

The reason I extended to hamper magic (ACF) is that it replaces steal spellike ability covered in original feat. It would also work for the skillthief ACF for example (that I am not taking). Returning steal spell like ability would also be another idea I guess

Long and short is that it will allow for a caster PRC's dip to advance the core spell theft without stacking class shenanigans but if you want absorb spell, steal resistances, SR or more d6 etc you will have to advance spellthief class. I guess it could also allow for a martial dip + practiced spellcaster feat but not looking at that at the momment.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Grand Poobah (see edit history)

[Michael]

Steal yes, cast no. There's discussions of this on the web, but a 1st level spellthief can only hold 1 spell level, so if they were then ST1/10 lvls of sorcerer and could steal 6th lvl spells they cannot do anything with them, said spell just immediately fizzles away.

Your new wording is actually more confusing, but it still looks like you want 99% of the benefits of a spellthief without taking more than 1 level in spellthief.

 

 

[Grand Poobah]

@Michael By useing "Your spellthief caster level" I thought I was being smart in that it can only come from spellthief ...Maybe "your caster level for your spellthief spells" would have been better. If you only had spellthief 1/sorcerer 10, this would remain one. It would give benifit from PRC's that would advance this casting but progressing spellthief spells is quite far behind a full arcane class anyway. Happy to shelve this and come up with something simpler.

[Michael]

On 12/18/2023 at 2:03 PM, Grand Poobah said:

@Michael By useing "Your spellthief caster level" I thought I was being smart in that it can only come from spellthief ...Maybe "your caster level for your spellthief spells" would have been better. If you only had spellthief 1/sorcerer 10, this would remain one. It would give benifit from PRC's that would advance this casting but progressing spellthief spells is quite far behind a full arcane class anyway. Happy to shelve this and come up with something simpler.

Thanks, or wait until my break is over and I have time to ponder. It's not going to be an issue for a while anyway.

[Grand Poobah]

OK I decided to piss off the whole stacking spellthief thing. Better to double down and just think pure spellthief.

 

FLEXIBLE SPELLTHIEF [New Feat]

You gain additional sneak attack bonus dice at 4th or higher levels as a normal spellthief and the ability to Hamper magic as outlined in the ACF.

No arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen in light armor

EXPANDED SPELLTHEFT [New Feat]

You can store more spells and stored spells last longer.

Your storage pool increases by 1/level and spells last 1h/level [rather than 1 hour] or 1min/level [rather than one min].

 

[Grand Poobah]

@Michael please see above.

 

Before I forget I wanted to get some brain explosions onto paper.

First I really like the whole vellum thing and I was thinking about our altered form ability and what I assume was an off the cuff comment you made in the intro infomation. You mentioned that we could mimic a person but got no memmories. ....but what if we ate them..who knows?

Got me thinking about both the flaycraft and the altered form ability.

What if I don't choose a form untill I can wear the flesh of a person. What if I was to make a mask from the flesh of the person I was going to immitate?

Got me thinking of another Item type.....maybe a new feat or whatever. Useing master of masks as inspiration you could make masks from victims gaining memmories and abilities.

Vellum Masks

Making a vellum mask requires a victum of at least 3HD. Once crafted the masks provide the following:

• An altered form (as per your rules), clear memmories of the last 3 months and vague memmories of the persons life.
• Abilities based on the HD/class of the person. Using master of masks as a guide:
  • Skills: +1 competence bonus per HD (max +10) on 2-4 skills
  • Abilitiesbased on type:
    • Caster: 1 spell/2HD, useable 1/day
    • Marital +1/ att/damege per 2HD max ?
    • etc per master of masks?

Anyway just an Idea that could be cool in another universe!

 

 

 

[Michael]

2 new feats look good, I like the whole hanibal lecter thing too.