Character creation discussion

[dalamb]

I’ll ban leadership. But the discussion raised the issue of capturing a ship and needing a crew, which made me realize:

Capturing ships

In the short term, if y’all capture a ship in the first few encounters it’ll get sold or handed off to NPCs since I don’t want to deal with the PCs having to choose one of their number as a new captain. In the longer term when we see who sticks around, and the player get to know each other and their characters better, setting up to be independent of Zentaru is one possible evolution of the campaign.

Edit: see addition to the Shipboard topic re ship capture.

[dalamb]

@TheFred: Multigrab, Greater Multigrab, Scaled Horror PrC all approved. All: ask here for other things you want from Savage Species, though not the monster classes.

[TheFred]

Awesome, thanks.

Also did you have an opinion on the Nereid idea? Specifically, would it be a no-go to be effectively a press-ganged prisoner of a former run-in with the captain? We're talking privateers (warmongering pirates-by-another-name), not saints, but I get the impression that Zentaru is meant to be a decent sort, plus the "no evil" rule, so I don't know if that would be morally acceptable.

(If not, no worried, I'm toying with a couple of ideas and with that other stuff approved I've got a few options 🙂)

[Master_Enceladus]

@dalamb I have a few questions and wanted to get some clarification/approval for some ideas I am thinking on.

 

1. For creation points, if we are gestalting two magic classes (like a wizard and cleric) is the 3 cost paid for each to advance their spell casting? Or would this be a 1 time payment to advance both?

2. Regarding officer positions, is a player going to be the captain or is this an NPC role? If a player is being the captain, how is the type of ship/funds for purchase being done?

3. Could a non-captian player contribute to the ships build/improvement? I had a wacky idea of using the Stronghold Player's Guide (if allowed) to use some of the room effects and other misc. bonuses. Like for instance putting in a workshop, training area, etc.

4. Would there be an objection to using the Heritage Feats from the Planar's Handbook? Going possibly with elemental themes but would prefer this instead of having to use templates.

5. Would there be any objection to using the Dvanti race from Dragon Compendium?

6. Would there be any object to using Weapons of Legacy?

7. Regarding crafting gear, are the price reductions noted in the DMG (pg. 282 sidebar) and DMG 2 (regarding certain guild memberships) in use? For that matter, are feats that reduce crafting cost from Eberron up for use?

8. Would we be able to use incantations from Undearth Arcana? Figured best to ask first but no biggy if not allowed.

9. On classes I had two thoughts concerning the Healer (Miniature's Handbook) and the Fiendbinder (Tome of Magic). While yes the Healer is weaker compared to other classes like the Cleric, one of its strengths is that it gets special creatures which are in effect longer lasting summon monsters. I had read a few ideas online that suggested to perhaps allow the list of creatures to possibly expand for selection of choices in some manner. The most straight forward method was perhaps as some form of barging with creatures of similar alignment from the planar ally spells. Regardless, would it be possible to perhaps at least to expand its list a bit?

On the Fiendbinder, pg. 227 has the adaption section noting of a "good fiendbinder" and also adding more selections to its list. Might this be up for a consideration of PRC choice? Got me to thinking of an idea for a good aligned fiend binder who is helping recently changed evil creatures to good find new purpose in life. Basically like Arueshalae from Wrath of the Righteous. Though there is also something to be said about turning it into something like a "celestial caller" where celestial creatures of similar CR could be used. In this case the binding cost might be considered a discount planar ally payment. Though if this PRC is allowed, rather than using Truespeak skill, could this be placed with the Linguistics skill and all needed checks made with it?

Anyways, a lot but initial thinking.

 

[dalamb]

@Master_Enceladus

1. You pay for access to a spell level once, no matter how many classes can cast that level of spell.

2. Melara Zentaru is the captain. As recently posted in the shipboard lore, there won’t be a PC captain for the forseeable future.

3. I’m fond of the Stronghold Builder’s Guide, but designing your own ship is going to have to wait a while.

4. I will have to think about adding the Planar Handbook; I haven’t looked at it in a long time.

5. Dragon Compendium isn’t something I want to adjudicate; my memory is that it isn’t as well thought out as “real” supplements.

6. Remind me of where to find Weapons of Legacy. Is there one in particular that you want?

7. Crafting price reductions: no.

8. UA incantations: no, but you’re right there was no harm in asking.

9. No Miniatures Handbook or Tome of Magic.

[dalamb]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:12 PM, TheFred said:

Alternatively, I was also toying with the idea of a Nereid (from Stormwrack, no dramas there)... but why would a Nereid join a privateer vessel? Could it be possible that she was a former enemy of the crew who Melara then defeated? (A Nereid is tied to her shawl so if Melara nicked it then she could use it as insurance against her deciding to turn on them)

For this kind of question, the fluff is all-important. Mechanically there is no issue, but the idea of a nereid, who by the books wants to stay on the material plane only for a limited time, does require motivation both on her side and on Melara’s side. Melara wouldn’t keep a prisoner long term; as a privateer, she would normally ransom or release a prisoner. Perhaps Melara rescued her from someone else who had taken her shawl, and the nereid is handing around “for a while” out of wanting to repay the Captain in some way, through service? Or perhaps there is some other thing she needs to accomplish before returning to the Plane of Water (which, presumably, won’t ever happen until you want to retire her from the campaign)?

[TheFred]

Being capricious and whimsical fey, I'm not sure one would typically want to stick around for any length of time... this is why my thought was to have the character be a captive of sorts. Obviously this works better with a less scrupulous captain but could Melara, say, consider it a form of payment for drowning some crewmembers/causing some damage in an initial encounter? After all, it's not like there's anyone to ransom a Nereid back to. It might even be semi-willing - as whimsical and capricious fey, I could see one joining a pirate privateer crew just for a lark, the shawl would just be insurance, a way to keep order (and explain why she doesn't just swim off one day).

[Avaday Daydream]

Well, if an enemy captain were willing to enslave nereids by taking their shawls, why would they stop at one? @TheFred, maybe if you did play a nereid, they might be interested in tracking down other captured nereids, and punishing whoever took their shawls? Or just freeing prisoners in general?

 

I think I had another question...oh yes! Rangers and the Favored Environment alternate class feature; should aquatic terrain be split up into several groups (open ocean, abyss, coastal, etc), or just left as is?

And, would it be possible to acquire the Blackwater domain power (immunity to water pressure) via the wizard's Domain Granted Power ACF (replaces one of their usual bonus feats), despite not being affiliated with any of the evil deities who grant it? My character does have a tendency to explore the deep lightless depths, so...and would this conflict with taking Arcane Disciple to gain spells from the Seafolk domain?

[Slayer4399]

Thinking of changing my build slightly, just wanted to check if Dungeonscape allowed? Thinking of switching to Factotum.

Edited February 26 by Slayer4399 (see edit history)

[TheBard101]

35 minutes ago, Slayer4399 said:

Thinking of changing my build slightly, just wanted to check if Dungeonscape allowed? Thinking of switching to Factotum.

Factotum is the standard gestalt class, that's for sure. LOL

[Slayer4399]

1 minute ago, TheBard101 said:

Factotum is the standard gestalt class, that's for sure. LOL

Hahaha yes it is!

[TheFred]

Factotum is a great, fun, and largely well-balanced class, though the obvious thing to worry about is not so much the class itself but Font of Inspiration. Despite it's reputation, this is probably OK in moderation... but let's say you spend 4 character points on point buy and the rest on bonus feats. 45 Fonts of Inspiration is not moderation! That's 1035 extra inspiration, or 345 bonus standard actions each encounter.

[Avaday Daydream]

1 hour ago, TheFred said:

Factotum is a great, fun, and largely well-balanced class, though the obvious thing to worry about is not so much the class itself but Font of Inspiration. Despite it's reputation, this is probably OK in moderation... but let's say you spend 4 character points on point buy and the rest on bonus feats. 45 Fonts of Inspiration is not moderation! That's 1035 extra inspiration, or 345 bonus standard actions each encounter.

To be fair, if you were willing to do something like that, Improved Natural Armor can be taken a bunch of times to improve your AC by 1 each time; with 6 CP, you could have a kobold with +19 natural armor.

...But even 1 CP would be enough to buy Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will and Great Fortitude together for a +2 to all saves. Maybe there needs to be a cap on how many bonus feats you can buy with CP. Or a DM who wants an explanation for why your kobold has thicker hide than a bulette, was he dipped in the River Styx as a child or something?

[Havelock]

I have heard it's a bad idea to give a GM ideas.....but if I were the GM, an easy way to pick between two applicants that both seems about equally promising is to throw out the one who took many, many more steroids of the munchkin brand than the other guy.

[TheBard101]

Many DM's automatically discount those that abuse the systems in place. 3.5 is rife with potential abuse so it's usually easy to see who the munchkins are. They are often the ones saying "I know this build is weak but..." or "that class/race/feat is probably under powered for this game but...". LOL