OOC

[Roughtrade]

I don't know what you mean, but I would like someone else to speak up about their actions after the zombies are finished off.

[TheFred]

1 hour ago, Roughtrade said:

Seriously, @fred I am just tired. Constantly having to exchange insults and dealing with Molly is sucking all of the fun out of the game for me. Could you please find some way to cooperate and actually help with moving the plot forward instead of whatever it is you are doing? I know this is a 'fiend' game, but evil doesn't mean being an asshat all of the time.

Honestly, I was getting a bit annoyed with Carmine's constant digs, but I assumed you were just enjoying the banter all in good faith. If you want him to be less of a jerk then that's more than fine with me; I don't know that anyone's forcing you to exchange insults at all.

I'm a bit surprised at the "moving the plot" bit, though, since everyone has repeatedly refused to engage in any kind of discussion of plans with Molgrug. Admittedly, he's (deliberately) a boring and annoying character and I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to sit through one of his seminars, but it's not like I'm wandering around aimlessly (in fact, it kinda feels like I'm the only one not intent on wandering around aimlessly right now...). For example, he suggested that we nab the powerful magic crystal that we saw before (you know, the one that's whole reason we're here in the first place). You're welcome to have your own idea of a way forward but it's hardly fair to suggest that I don't.

[Grand Poobah]

I think we should discuss "meta"plans in the OOC so that the game thread progresses otherwise we slow down too much. I am more than happy to do these conversations as I personally like a big picture frameword to hang the game on.

From my previous post:

From a big picture perspective the Lich may well have a lot of knoledge that would equate to power or advantage back in Ebberon. If he is a super inteligent Lich King who almost defeated an invading uber race then we either take what we can now while he is weak or align with him and Carve up the world. As far as Nizell is concerned he could can have all the goblinoids and undead he likes if we get the sweet tasting mortals.

Using the Cult members that would allign with us and killing the rest would make sence.

Also this current complex ...it would seem like a large area that we could use as a home base. We should find out where it is on the world?

Given we are about the interact with the Lich is offer for power can be judjed once we hear it.

 

[Roughtrade]

7 hours ago, TheFred said:

You're welcome to have your own idea of a way forward but it's hardly fair to suggest that I don't.

Making long posts saying you have a plan is not the same as having a plan.

Purposefully dragging your heels when PCs are in combat and nearly dying, to the point where the GM comments on it in his posts while you fiddle with not doing anything with the stone anyways until combat was completed is not contributing to the success of our group.

Petty grabbing things out of players hands which might be clues or part of something which could assist us is not contributing to the success of our group.

It's perfectly fair to say you are not contributing to the success of the group. Half the time you seem to be working against the rest of us.

7 hours ago, TheFred said:

I assumed you were just enjoying the banter all in good faith.

Once in a while is fine. Every post is a drag. I would like to have some conversations not be like pulling teeth just to get to a point.

[Roughtrade]

4 hours ago, Grand Poobah said:

we should discuss "meta"plans in the OOC

Big Picture Meta Planning

Most of these I have said in several places In Character.

We need to find out more about this prophecy so that we can control the narrative of it instead of having to rely on a conclave of mortals who are split on how they feel about it. The cocoon stage leaves us helpless. Getting control over the mortals watching over our eggs seems like priority one to me.

Discovering what the stone does before handing it over seems like a very good idea to me.

Discovering what the scepter does before handing it over seems like a very good idea to me.

Finding our own exit out of this place so that we have options over returning to the Mortal Conclave seems like a very good idea to me.

Maybe the Frozen Lich is a separate path of returning to power. I don't trust him any more than the Mortals. If this place is his prison, then going through it might give us more information about him, and the things that jailed him here.

---

Our Fiends were dropped here by some means they do not know. Our powers were stripped away and we are rather helpless compared to our previous positions. All of the above priorities fall by the wayside if we can find another path that returns us to our former power. For all we know, there isn't a Hell here. Or there is, but no other demons and it's just waiting for us to take over. Won't know until we learn more about where we are. Maybe that is by going back. Maybe not. I would prefer to explore and find out what is here and if it can help us.

[TheFred]

Well I'm sorry that you are upset, though this is the first I'm hearing of it. If you didn't enjoy the interactions between Carmine and Molgrug I would have hoped you would have said something sooner before suddenly announcing that I've gone way over the top. As for the rest of it:

10 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

Making long posts saying you have a plan is not the same as having a plan.

No, but it's not like you've ever actually asked what the plan is. I don't necessarily expect you to, but it's unreasonable to conclude that there isn't one.

10 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

Making long posts saying you have a plan is not the same as having a plan.

Purposefully dragging your heels when PCs are in combat and nearly dying, to the point where the GM comments on it in his posts while you fiddle with not doing anything with the stone anyways until combat was completed is not contributing to the success of our group.

You all rushed ahead whilst I wasn't done. It's not my fault if you get yourself killed, I'm not your bodyguard. Please also note that I was actually away for a period of this (which I notified everyone about) so didn't have as much chance as I would have liked to have caught up.

10 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

Petty grabbing things out of players hands which might be clues or part of something which could assist us is not contributing to the success of our group.

This is what you're bringing up? I specifically checked this with the other player OoC before doing so (something which, by the way, you did not do when interacting with my character, despite the DM's policy on "PvP" - noting that I'm using that quite broadly, but both the incidents are pretty comparable in that respect) - my character may be petty, but that was a pre-agreed interaction.

[Roughtrade]

7 hours ago, TheFred said:

This is what you're bringing up?

It isn't that you took a thing.

It is that you did NOTHING with it. You didn't study it, you didn't appraise it for value, you did nothing. You did it specifically to prevent someone else from studying it and finding out if it had a purpose.

I would gladly let Molly study things we find, he has much better skill, but so far Molly has done NOTHING with anything. He has not contributed to moving forward or gaining or really anything at all. The only thing Molly contributes is argument and being contrary.

7 hours ago, TheFred said:

but it's unreasonable to conclude that there isn't one.

It's unreasonable to conclude he has a plan when Molly continually says he has a plan but does not have a plan. Just like Molly insisted he was going to shoot electricity at Carmine for head pats but he did not. Molly has not once produced anything he said he was going to. Molly gets head pats.

Until Molly actually produces something of value, then he hasn't got a plan.

My plan is to finish examining things for ourselves instead of going back. These things seem to be important and powerful to others. Maybe we can use them if we figure out what they are. This plan has been said in character and out of character.

 

7 hours ago, TheFred said:

Please also note that I was actually away for a period of this (

You had time to post multiple times during the combat actions. Not asking you to be anyone's bodyguard. But this is just one more example out of many in which your character is not contributing to the success of the group. Not sure why you would highlight one of the most egregious examples of how little Molly contributes.

 

[TheFred]

OK, now you're just being obtuse. We're in the middle of a dungeon, what am I going to do, pull out my pocket laboratory and start some experiments on a crystal? You literally just complained about not moving forward quickly enough; the crystal can be studied later. This isn't a thing that's worth getting upset about; we were going to pocket that crystal anyway, and Molgrug doing it just makes him look greedy and petty, or at least untrusting.

Molgrug (his name is Molgrug by the way, you keep spelling it wrong) did not threaten to zap Carmine, I did. I chose to ignore the head pats thing OoC and just pretend it never happened to avoid OoC drama since I was kind annoyed by it and you didn't seem to realise (plus, the DM has explicitly said no PvP that isn't choreographed; my character is not allowed to zap yours unless we agree it, and by extension yours shouldn't be poking mine).

"Contributing to the plot" is really rather subjective. This is a role-playing game, not a shoot-em-up; we're not judging our success based on how rapidly we can run through the tunnels. Nevertheless, I find it a bit ironic for you to be accusing someone else of not contributing to the plot when you all chose to completely ignore our actual plot goal.

I would genuinely like not to resolve this somehow. In my last post I've attempted to bridge the gap a bit. I'm not going to replace my character with one with a completely different personality, but I am always happy to try and work things out OoC. At this point though I'm starting to feel like you're just being super-argumentative and unfairly so; you've gone from no indication of any discontent to this whole series of angry and frankly pretty petty attacks. If you want to move forward, please try to start being constructive and maybe a bit more polite. I'll try and be a bit clearer on what Molgrug wants and avoid any big IC arguments; you should avoid those arguments too, then, and quit with the trying to mess with other people's characters without permission, how about that?

Edited April 26 by TheFred (see edit history)

[Roughtrade]

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

OK, now you're just being obtuse.

No. Just another example of you slowing things down and being contrary to the point of hilarity.

"Mage's Spectacles a soulmeld that shapes incarnum into a pair of blue-lensed spectacles that grant the wearer a +4 insight bonus on checks for Decipher Script, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device"

Molgrug literally has his first soulmeld as a thing that helps investigate things.

You do not need to pull out a laboratory to investigate something found in a dungeon. You can do detect magic on it and make a skill check to see what possible functions it has. Or you can see how it interacts with the thing found two rooms before. You can do more than just stick it in your pocket. Claiming you do not know what to do is just, I dunno, gaslighting? What else can it be called when you say things like that?

 

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

we were going to pocket that crystal anyway,

No we were not. We were going to find out what it does. Even if the investigation of it proved we needed more information or a better set of tools, it would have been something.

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

did not threaten to zap Carmine, I did.

You did not.

Saying it in OOC is not taking an action.

It is saying it in OOC and then we waited for three days for you to actually do something.

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

I chose to ignore the head pats thing OoC and just pretend it never happened

You got head pats.

By not protesting In Character, it happened.

Half of the hold up in this game has been waiting for you to do something In Character that you posted Out of Character.

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

Nevertheless, I find it a bit ironic for you to be accusing someone else of not contributing to the plot when you all chose to completely ignore our actual plot goal.

Everyone chose to move on from the room and leave the Frozen Schmuck with his rock on the 19th of March. From there to the 7th of April, you were still fiddling about with talking about room with the crystal after spending 18 days in OOC trying to convince someone else to pick it up.

I really find it tedious for you to pretend that you do not understand what is being said. Moving the story along is moving with everyone instead of constantly restarting discussions which have been settled. The rest of us had decided that taking the crystal back directly to the mortal group is not the direction we are moving in at this point.

5 hours ago, TheFred said:

would genuinely like not to resolve this somehow.

 

Resolution?

Stop being contrary about decisions once they are made.

Stop doing things specifically so that you can prevent other players from accomplishing things.

Mostly I would really like to just stop having you be so damn negative all of the time In Character. Carmine and Molgrug started their debate as a discussion of Law vs Chaos. It was fun then. It stopped being fun when you started on just generally being insulting and I followed suit. (Underlined to highlight that, yes, it is my fault too for buying in)

Yes, you have made a step in that direction. Thank you.

[Roughtrade]

We could end this OOC debate now as well. It isn't about win or lose an argument. But as long as you keep trying to gaslight with things like "I don't know how to investigate a magic item" crap, I will keep replying that we all know better.

---

All that I want to do is play a game without it being a drain on my day. As said above, I would really like to let someone with better KS Arcane and Spellcraft study the things we find. It would be very helpful in moving forward the goal of us having more information than the mortals and dead kings we have encountered. It is difficult to work Molgrug into that equation.

[TheFred]

We're talking about the crystal that Carmine already cast Detect Magic on, right? This one?

On 2/8/2024 at 9:19 PM, TheFred said:

Molgrug will shift his essentia back to his Mage's Spectacles, then roll whatever might give him a hint.

On 2/9/2024 at 3:37 AM, Michael said:

Molgrug thinks it might well be one of these Eberron or Khyber or Sybaris shards that their hosts mentioned, though given its colour it's unlikely to be the special dark shard you were sent here for.

This one, it would appear, empowers magical constructs.

The only gaslighting here is trying to say someone is gaslighting when they're not.

Regardless, this seems like a very odd thing to get hung up on. We've gone from "I am finding these arguments between our characters quite draining actually, can we stop?" to you nitpicking every single one of my character's actions. I find it rude, and very frustrating.

As I've said, I'm happy to try and dial back the arguments - and thank you for acknowledging that it takes two to do that. Honestly, this happens a lot in PbP games; a little IC banter can escalate, and as players we are invested in our characters and often find it hard to separate ourselves from them. An attack on them often feels like an attack on us. Personally, I'm more than happy for Molgrug to be embarrassed or mocked from time to time where appropriate and have deliberately put him in such situations myself a couple of times - but even so I think I got a bit sucked in there. That's natural, but OK, let's step back a bit.

He's admittedly a bit of a contrary character. His whole concept is appearing as this slightly bumbling bureaucrat, so I don't intend for him not to prevaricate and wax lyrical a lot of the time - but he's not meant to stop anyone from doing anything (and for the most part I don't think he has). I don't think it helps that we've had some slightly odd talking at cross-purposes particularly around this dark crystal and things but hopefully we can move on from that.

I do want to pick up on this though:

2 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

You got head pats.

By not protesting In Character, it happened.

In all seriousness, and with all snark set aside, this is not right. Responding IC is not the correct way to do this, and head pats shouldn't strictly have happened in the first place. In order for Molgrug to zap Carmine, you need to agree. In order for Carmine to head pat Molgrug in the first place, really, I need to agree. Head pats themselves are minor enough that I didn't bother over it but I was annoyed and ultimately this is essentially PvP, on which we have a policy:

Quote

The players involved should ENTIRELY agree beforehand, and also agree to a quick choreograph of what happens. Do it in PM or private thread.

Going forward I think we really should stick to that - that's why I asked before snatching from Brandisher, as mentioned. Like I said, I don't really want to make a big deal about it over head pats, but it absolutely isn't something that should be resolved IC (I was tempted, honestly, to write a post saying that Molgrug zaps Carmine and he cries like a baby or something, but that would just have been needlessly provocative and unhelpful). All I'm asking is if we can just not do this sort of thing again.

[Grand Poobah]

To help things out here how about I have the last word!!

When we have examined the staff can I strongly suggest we go back and talk to the Lich.

 

 

@Michael Metagaming here

I would like to get a few more hooks and concepts throw in before we spend all of 2024 exploring a dungeon. Really the DM put us in front of a highly intelligent being with history and knowledge of a world, that there is a potential to use and we can't be bothered to take a few steps back and negotiate with? You may actually be in range of his telepathy!

Talking to the Lich and bartering is not giving him the staff. But he may know this complex, may know other ways to return to the city etc.

 

" We are really torn about returning this to you, it may well be priceless and we are in need of this sort cash so please explain why we should return it to you. A soul in the hand...."

"Convince us that the better option is not returning to the humans"

" To go further in this complex we need to return regularly to the city to eat mortals ...how can we do this efficiently whilst keeping the complex hidden..something about the portal blocked mortals? Is this the alien magic that imprisoned you?

?????

?????

 

Edited April 26 by Grand Poobah (see edit history)

[Michael]

Good grief, I go off to erect a greenhouse for a couple of days and come back to...

I'm not going to pick a side here. Up until right now I had thought both of you were enjoying the exchange and characters. I hop you can get to the handshake part and move on.

[Michael]

@Grand Poobah, and others thinking of nicking the sceptre and going home, remember:

On 12/20/2023 at 11:08 PM, Michael said:

You step through the portal. The travel stings a bit, but not enough to cause any damage. You emerge into a circular chamber. The walls and floors are made of marble but all show the passage of many years, worn, pitted and scarred. A fresco of some kind probably adorned the walls but it has faded to illegibility.

Behind you the portal glows. On this side there are no glyphs. In addition, some initial investigation shows it is barred by some kind of force wall, it appears that your journey was one way. There is an exit to the east.

Roll20 updated. Feel free to explore until you encounter a locked door... or an inhabitant.

Edited April 26 by Michael (see edit history)

[Michael]

Also, there's no initial zapping or other untoward effects from picking up the very magical sceptre which contains auras from many schools, necromancy, conjuration and evocation being the strongest.