Ironsworn Odyssey OOC

[Vladim]

13 minutes ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

OK, that's three out of four of us OK with Ironsworn. How do we handle group decisions? Maybe TheObsoleteMan wants a shot at changing our minds. Should we go with a simple majority or should we establish a pattern that certain (big) decisions are worth waiting for everyone to weigh in?

For big decisions, I'd be more comfortable with waiting for everyone to voice their thoughts personally. Hopefully we can organically arrive to a good decision-making process as the game progresses!

[Wizard of the Coat]

1 minute ago, Vladim said:

For big decisions, I'd be more comfortable with waiting for everyone to voice their thoughts personally. Hopefully we can organically arrive to a good decision-making process as the game progresses!

Seconded.

And switching to Ironsworn feels like a big decision, so we wait for @TheObsoleteMan to chime in on the issue of switching from Vaults and Vows aspects to Ironsworn aspects.

[Delorphin]

41 minutes ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

Lines and veils is a general tabletop thing referring to what limits we do not want to cross (lines) and things we would have a 'fade to black' when it is brought up (veils). It's to keep everyone on the same page so we don't run into any discomfort when playing when bringing up potentially problematic topics.

 

[Delorphin]

1 hour ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

I also like your second idea: maybe the cataclysmic event that ended the war involved some sort of sundering of the veil between this world and the world of the dead, allowing the vast numbers of soldiers slain the the generations-long war to once again walk the world of the living as undead. That could be cool.

Along those lines, I was thinking what if rather than undead walking around the earth, maybe let them be wandering spirits instead. That could mean that their impact on the world can manifest in a variety of different ways without themselves being explicitly tangible. If we are playing through the sort of epilogue of a war, the dead being out of reach but their loss having a direct impact on the world could be nice with themes of grief and the burden of war.

Edited March 13 by Delorphin (see edit history)

[Wizard of the Coat]

20 minutes ago, Delorphin said:

Lines and veils is a general tabletop thing referring to what limits we do not want to cross (lines) and things we would have a 'fade to black' when it is brought up (veils). It's to keep everyone on the same page so we don't run into any discomfort when playing when bringing up potentially problematic topics.

Thanks for brining me up to speed.

I think clear expectations about these matters (lines and veils) is a great idea!

[Wizard of the Coat]

10 minutes ago, Delorphin said:

Along those lines, I was thinking what if rather than undead walking around the earth, maybe let them be wandering spirits instead. That could mean that their impact on the world can manifest in a variety of different ways without themselves being explicitly tangible. If we are playing through the sort of epilogue of a war, the dead being out of reach but their loss having a direct impact on the world could be nice with themes of grief.

Yes! I really like this idea! Much better for our game concept/theme.

Man, I've got to start thinking outside the box. I feel like my ideas are being limited by the years of more structured RPGs I've played.

[TheObsoleteMan]

I'll add more thoughts later when I get the chance, but I'm perfectly fine going with base Ironsworn for that grittier vibe!

[Vladim]

I'll add more thoughts too later-when I have a little more time-but in the meanwhile I will start a new thread entitled Session 0 (here's a link for anyone is unfamiliar with the term) and upload a consent tool checklist.

[TheObsoleteMan]

At the risk of being somewhat unhelpful, I am really digging where you guys are going with the setting/story so far. In particular, I like the idea that the war was so devastating that it had a literal impact on the world, reshaping the landscape and blurring the line between the world of the living and the dead. Such an aspect of the setting lends itself nicely to the idea of "low magic," or a world where "magic" is something a little more esoteric, and always comes with a cost--which is awesome! I'm also a fan of the idea of normal people dealing with weird supernatural stuff, and having to overcome it however they can.

I do like the idea of survivors of a military unit, but I wonder if that might be a bit limiting for character concepts? It might not necessarily be the case, though it might be interesting if we were all simply refugees of the war in one way or another--soldiers, civilians, nobility, etc. who have been impacted by the war, and now seek to escape from the aftermath. Some of us might be returning home, others might be seeking asylum in wherever "home" is for the soldiers, or maybe we just want to run away from the things we saw/did during the war.

That said, I'm perfectly fine having our characters all be from the same unit/army. I've got enough character ideas rattling around in my head to put a concept like that together. Just want to make sure that everybody has a chance to play the character they're most interested in!

Edited March 14 by TheObsoleteMan (see edit history)

[Vladim]

So, we all agree that in our version of the Iron Lands, there's been a great and catastrophic war that we (or rather our PCs) are returning from. Any ideas about any of the following?

• Who fought the war?
• Why did they fight it?
• How long did the war last?
• How did it end?
• Was our side defeated, victorious or... something in between?

[Delorphin]

On the topic of characters, what ideas does everyone have? I remember @Vladim mentioning a preference for collaborative character generation which I also think is apt for this kind of game. Like what he said, it increases personal investment into the group but also solidifies the implied amount of history between the characters as we are all aware of each other's characters on a more intimate level. Personally, I'm the type to enjoy playing whatever because of the challenge, so I can fill in to be a foil or parallel to other characters or fill in conceptual or mechanical gaps as needed to enhance the general story.

On the topic of whether or not a military unit is restrictive, I don't believe it to be the case. Following the course of history, there was no full time soldiers. As much as we are survivors of a war and veterans, the characters are also now civilians once again. I feel like that's an interesting thing to reconcile, returning home could mean finding a new home as the events of the war has made them unable to be who they once were, seeking a different life entirely. Could a soldier go back to being the town's doctor after they have taken so many lives / failed to save many? Or for characters like Puck, how could they figure out how to live if conflict is all they know?

[Vladim]

I am personally not against the PCs being part of a military unit, however I feel like allowing a broader range of characters related to the war, like for example refugees, hangers-on etc will allow for a more diverse set of PCs with more interesting dynamics... so I favor that.

I am not too worried of coming up with connections even if the military unit is not the one that binds us all as a group. Over the years I've come to experience the creativity of my fellow Weavers, so I am sure there'll be lots of ideas.

It would be nice to have PCs that are, at least in some aspects, likeable, as I have not yet mastered the art of making PCs that are both compelling and unlikeable at the same time. That doesn't mean no flaws-just characters that we can sympathize with and root for.

As for myself... I am not sure! My character ideas in the application thread probably don't fit so I'll need to brainstorm. I don't mind playing the war-weary soldier-type, but honestly I don't need to. I am also happy with a refugee or conscript, a merc or an outsider. Again-I am happy to defer to others if they have a strong concept they want to try!

Mechanically I've already played (and am still playing) a high-shadow sneaky character that isn't great in a scrap, and a high-wits hunter/outdoorsy-type with iron and edge her secondary stats... so I probably want to avoid these and go for someone high in iron, edge or heart. Just for variety's sake!

[Wizard of the Coat]

18 hours ago, TheObsoleteMan said:

I do like the idea of survivors of a military unit, but I wonder if that might be a bit limiting for character concepts? It might not necessarily be the case, though it might be interesting if we were all simply refugees of the war in one way or another--soldiers, civilians, nobility, etc. who have been impacted by the war, and now seek to escape from the aftermath. Some of us might be returning home, others might be seeking asylum in wherever "home" is for the soldiers

Yes to this. My character is a war orphan who grew up in a war torn city or town as an urchin, but eventually got "adopted" by the other PCs' military unit--only to discover that he's actually the child of one of their passed platoon members--and that he has possible family back in the village they are from.

I think we're all agreed on this issue that we don't all have to be soldiers. That said, I think we should all have a compelling reason to return back to the same "homeland" (home isle?).

• Egan told me so many stories about the place. Those stories got me through the war--even if Egan didn't. But now I've got to see the place.
• I promised Black Degain as he lay dying that I'd return his family axe back to his home.
• ...

I also think it would be nice if at least ONE of the PCs was an actual soldier--even if it's just young Puck. BTW, Puck is just the most promising concept I've been developing, but if he doesn't work within our group process, I've got plenty of other ideas.

14 hours ago, Delorphin said:

I remember @Vladim mentioning a preference for collaborative character generation which I also think is apt for this kind of game.

Yes to this. I've played in games where we all created our characters together (in a session zero) with the aim of giving them clear and interesting relationships and bonds. Those are my favorite kinds of games.

14 hours ago, Vladim said:

• Who fought the war?
• Why did they fight it?
• How long did the war last?

I'm just throwing out ideas here.

Who?

In keeping with the low-fantasy feel, I'd prefer that this was exclusively a human happening. Stupid humans wrecked the world, not ancient elves rising from their hidden holds, not dark lords, not giants from the north.

Why?

Think about the concept of great world conquerers: Alexander the Great, Ghengis Kahn, Napoleon.... What if by some strange coincidence there were TWO great world conquerors at the same time. Each starting at opposite ends of the known world, building their empires until they finally slammed into each other. Naturally, the result would be a spectacular war to end all wars. So the answer to the why question is: conquest, and the hubris of two military leaders turned emperors who wanted to rule the world.

How Long?

I liked the wording from Sundered Islands Speak Your Truths section: a generations long war. What if both of these great conquerors were young--I think Alexander died when he was 33. What if our "alexander" lived to be 83? The War could have lasted for 55+ years.

14 hours ago, Vladim said:

• How did it end?
• Was our side defeated, victorious or... something in between?

The End?

In a cataclysmic event that more than decimated both sides. Maybe one side attempted a very dark ritual and the other side intervened to prevent it, but rather than prevent it, the ritual went sideways and... cataclysm. Ultimately, our players don't have to know the details. We just their perspective and experience. The moon turned read, the earth shook, the land broke, entire cities were swallowed down into the earth, long buried cities were thrust up to the surface, entire lands sank beneath the sea, islands rose.... dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Something in between?

Leaderless, the survivors saw no reason to continue the war. Besides, the battle grounds lay in ruins, no longer safe for battle. So the survivors from both sides went their separate ways.

Edited March 15 by Wizard of the Coat (see edit history)

[Vladim]

Alright! That makes some sense.

If we are going to go grounded, would it make sense for the opposing armies to have been the 'Old world' vs. some big uprising in the Iron Lands? I could see the Ironlanders wanting their independence after a few generations, whereas two great conquerors fighting over such a bleak setting... we'd have to give them some reason to want it and be willing to fight so hard for it, right?

Of course it could be some macguffin but broadly speaking I am not a huge fan of those, and I like a bit of (fantasy) politics in my games. That being said, I know that not everyone does, so I am happy to skip this if folks would rather not. I just like rebellion-themed games for all the potentially interesting stakes, so I am biased.

I'll try and brainstorm a few character ideas over the weekend. Speaking of the weekend, I am not much of a weekend poster... so if my activity is lower between Sat-Sun, now you know why :)

[Wizard of the Coat]

14 minutes ago, Vladim said:

...whereas two great conquerors fighting over such a bleak setting... we'd have to give them some reason to want it and be willing to fight so hard for it, right?

Oh, I see what you're getting at. In the Rulebook, the Iron Lands seem a relatively small region: a peninsula ignored by the old world forces because it was harsh and offered no cheap, easy-to-access resources. I was thinking of the Iron Isles (Sundered Isles now seems like it would be confusing, given the nature of the publication) in a similar way. They are a small and insignificant region. I was seeing the War as an Old World thing.

But what if one of the Two Emperors came through the Iron Isles with a superior force, conquered the Isles in name only (usually without much of a fight), pressing most of the able-bodied males of each village or Isle into military service. That way, the PCs trying to get home were not fighting this war out of any sense of patriotism--they were fighting because they feared what would happen to their families back home if they did not fight--and because they had little chance of deserting and making their way back home.

I like throwing out ideas. I'm not married to these ideas. I just think they might be fun to develop with our characters.