Ironsworn Odyssey OOC

[Wizard of the Coat]

1 hour ago, Delorphin said:

Pulling from Wanderhome an additional thing we can do here is when we reach a new destination or leave the one we are currently at we can take a step back as well to set things up / reflect. In the case of arrival, we can do a brief discussion of the kind place we are visiting and some characters we might find there. This will keep us all vaguely on the same page as we keep pushing the narrative forward. We can even do it as if in the eyes of the memories of the pre-cataclysm to keep some level of surprise. Whoever is in charge of describing the scene when we arrive there might alter the characters or place based on the aftermath of the cataclysm. When we are departing from a location, we can focus inwards and either just summarise or discuss our characters and how their arcs are shaping up after the last location, how they are changing and where you would like to see their progression head to.

I like all of these suggestions. Particularly the part I've bolded!

[Wizard of the Coat]

5 hours ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

That said, I can see reasons why we might want to define some (not all) key parameters for this first scene--a review of elements we've already agreed upon, rather than additional details that could be left to the lucky winner of the die roll.

Here's my attempt to articulate our general agreement about the opening scene.

1. An in media res opening...
2. Set during or immediately following the Cataclysm...
3. Involving High-stakes danger... [Danger might include "land sundering" natural disaster such as the land sinking beneath the sea, earthquakes, tornados, land thrust up into new mountains. Other danger might involve supernatural elements related to the veil between this world and the underworld being torn, releasing spirits of varying dispositions. Other danger might include competition with other survivors for resources or pathways to survival (e.g. a limited number of boats/ships on a sinking island).]
4. Forcing the four characters--who start in close proximity--to band together and cooperate for mutual survival.

Is this an adequate summary of our general agreement regarding the opening scene or did I miss something?

What more--if anything--do we want to add to these elements?

[Vladim]

Sounds good to me! Nothing to add.

For my suggestion of an in media res opening, how about we start on a big ship (e.g. sth trireme-sized) with other military unit survivors sailing home when a sudden extreme / cataclysmic event (like a supernatural storm) destroys or severely damaged the vessel and forces us to work together to survive?

[Vladim]

*or longboat if more setting-appropeiate

[Delorphin]

I think all of the above sounds good, starting on a ship is a great idea. I like how it can avoid the explicit events of the cataclysm and puts us straight into the aftermath and the focus on its aftermath. Starting on a ship is also great for letting us establish our chracters and dynamics before the focus shifts towards what's happening with the rest of the world. If everyone else is down, I think that's enough information to start.

[Wizard of the Coat]

19 hours ago, Vladim said:

For my suggestion of an in media res opening, how about we start on a big ship (e.g. sth trireme-sized) with other military unit survivors sailing home when a sudden extreme / cataclysmic event (like a supernatural storm) destroys or severely damaged the vessel and forces us to work together to survive?

OK, so... "...destroys or severely damaged the vessel..."

Wow! In a heroic high fantasy setting, I'd say yes. But in a gritty low-fantasy setting, I'm wondering how this would play out in a way that keeps us together, and allows our characters enough agency to cooperate in meaningful ways. I mean, wouldn't the strategy be: find some floating wreckage and hang on for dear life, ride out the storm, hope land is within sight after the storm, swim for land.

I guess I'm not as experienced as the rest of you with Ironsworn. So if you guys say this is doable and would be fun, I'll join you.

---

As for triremes, they required a very high crew complement to man the oars and haul the ship onto dry land every night. So are we on a ship that somehow has a highly trained crew still operating in a coordinated way under some remaining military command structure? It seems like a well organized crew operating under some surviving command structure would limit our ability as agents to affect the outcome of the "severely damaged" ship.

Or maybe this trireme is running on sails, without oarsmen or a clear command structure? A ship of chaos, where competing factions/voices vie for control, and the desperate passengers/survivors outnumber the experienced crew/seamen.

Random thought.... Maybe, because we've not been dragging trireme onto land each night to dry her out, her "light wood" hull has grown waterlogged. Would it be interesting to have a slower (waterlogged) destruction to the ship?

 

 

[Vladim]

Hm... Let me see if I can explain better:

• I don't think it's implausible for NPC crewmates to be fellow survivors. I don't think we need a huge crew (a trireme or longboat could be... a few dozens to a hundred tops, in my recollection?) and we can kill off a bunch of them in the opening scene to set the tone (depending on rolls/character actions).
• That being said, we should probably choose a type of ship and stick with it-probably things inspired by disparate historical eras are perhaps a bit too gonzo? My gut tells me longboat is better than trireme for our nascent setting, but I don't care too much.
• For a co-op game, where there's no GM to feed us plot, I think I appreciate best scenes with a wide range of possible outcomes and high stakes. In my example, perhaps we could run the storm scene as a tough scene challenge, and maybe we do well and manage to rescue the vessel and most of its crew, or maybe we just do ok so we end up with a mostly ruined ship with a greatly diminished crew, or maybe we do badly and the whole thing sinks and we all try to find a wreckage and stick together. Maybe we are really unlucky and one of us drowns... or maybe we end up fighting some monster. Maybe we end up lost at sea, or maybe we (with ship or without) end up washed up in some mysterious island. I don't know and that's the beauty of it-because I can't predict the outcome, and there's space for some wide turn of fortunes (both for better or worse), it is more interesting to me in terms of narrative.

I am, however, not against other suggestions... though a slow waterlogging does not seem too pressing narratively to be as highly dramatic as I would prefer. But we can also put the matter to a vote.

[Delorphin]

2 hours ago, Vladim said:

I don't think it's implausible for NPC crewmates to be fellow survivors. I don't think we need a huge crew (a trireme or longboat could be... a few dozens to a hundred tops, in my recollection?) and we can kill off a bunch of them in the opening scene to set the tone (depending on rolls/character actions).

One way to cut down on the amount of people other than just killing them off could be just a division. Apparently longships have 25-60 people, which is more manageable as well. We can have a fleet of survivors that slowly dwindle either through death, or ships separating as they disagree on how to navigate the unknown geography. This will also give us potential as well to see them in the future.

 

6 hours ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

Random thought.... Maybe, because we've not been dragging trireme onto land each night to dry her out, her "light wood" hull has grown waterlogged. Would it be interesting to have a slower (waterlogged) destruction to the ship?

I think, like with all stories, rhythm and pacing is important. Right now, when our characters aren't super well defined nor their relationship to the world, each other, and themselves, a higher stake start could give us the momentum we need to help the story start and chug along. Afterwards we can go towards slower paced scenes as we get more comfortable with the game and our characters.

[Vladim]

1 hour ago, Delorphin said:

One way to cut down on the amount of people other than just killing them off could be just a division. Apparently longships have 25-60 people, which is more manageable as well. We can have a fleet of survivors that slowly dwindle either through death, or ships separating as they disagree on how to navigate the unknown geography. This will also give us potential as well to see them in the future.

Good idea, I'm all for it!

[Delorphin]

One thing we can also do, if we want urgency but low stakes could be dealing with internal strife. By virtue of having a wyvern, it will cause conflict either by fear or resource loss. Any disaster out at sea could be further amplified by its existence.

[Wizard of the Coat]

11 hours ago, Vladim said:

That being said, we should probably choose a type of ship and stick with it-probably things inspired by disparate historical eras are perhaps a bit too gonzo? My gut tells me longboat is better than trireme for our nascent setting, but I don't care too much.

 

8 hours ago, Delorphin said:

Apparently longships have 25-60 people, which is more manageable as well.

I think I'm not on the same page with the two of you about longboats/longships. Which of the following are we talking about?

1. The longboat (sometimes called a longship) carried or towed by a larger sailing vessel? It's usage (historically) overlapped the age of sail--in which ship design and construction involved more advanced technology than I was assuming.

2. The single-mast, rectangular-sail, viking longship depicted in movies, TV, and history books?

3. Something else?

8 hours ago, Delorphin said:

One way to cut down on the amount of people other than just killing them off could be just a division. Apparently longships have 25-60 people, which is more manageable as well. We can have a fleet of survivors that slowly dwindle either through death, or ships separating as they disagree on how to navigate the unknown geography. This will also give us potential as well to see them in the future.

Assuming TOM doesn't have any objections, Del and Vlad both like this idea, and I'll their lead.

---

More comments and questions...

1. While most of the other longboats/longships are likely at max capacity or overcrowded, perhaps our longboat/ship is not thanks to the wyvern. Not many people want to sit in cramped quarters next to a wyvern.

2. In seems like the original "survivors fleet" would have had to have had a shared destination. If so, what would that destination have been in relation to our longterm destination (the Iron Isles)? If we want a shared destination but divisions about how to navigate there, would it make more sense that the fleet consisted mostly of the Iron Islanders pressed into military service?

7 hours ago, Delorphin said:

One thing we can also do, if we want urgency but low stakes could be dealing with internal strife.

I like the idea of dealing with internal strife. It seems like a realistic element of post-cataclysmic (and batshit crazy) survival.

[Vladim]

21 hours ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

I think I'm not on the same page with the two of you about longboats/longships. Which of the following are we talking about?

1. The longboat (sometimes called a longship) carried or towed by a larger sailing vessel? It's usage (historically) overlapped the age of sail--in which ship design and construction involved more advanced technology than I was assuming.

2. The single-mast, rectangular-sail, viking longship depicted in movies, TV, and history books?

3. Something else?

Assuming TOM doesn't have any objections, Del and Vlad both like this idea, and I'll their lead.

---

More comments and questions...

1. While most of the other longboats/longships are likely at max capacity or overcrowded, perhaps our longboat/ship is not thanks to the wyvern. Not many people want to sit in cramped quarters next to a wyvern.

2. In seems like the original "survivors fleet" would have had to have had a shared destination. If so, what would that destination have been in relation to our longterm destination (the Iron Isles)? If we want a shared destination but divisions about how to navigate there, would it make more sense that the fleet consisted mostly of the Iron Islanders pressed into military service?

I like the idea of dealing with internal strife. It seems like a realistic element of post-cataclysmic (and batshit crazy) survival.

Sorry for the late reply-travelling (partially for work)...

Ok, first set of questions:

1. Not that one.
2. Yes, the 'Viking' longship / longboat. A very casual internet search tells me that the typical crew of the smaller versions was around 20-30 people. But there's no reason for ours not to be operated by a smaller, skeleton crew, or to be an even smaller variety. I am happy to use historical sources for inspiration, but I don't care too much for historical accuracy, just plausibility.
3. Not on my end!

Second set:

1. Yeah. I like that idea. Maybe @Delorphin can work on this aspect given that they're using the wyvern asset.
2. Not sure. Maybe a map could be useful. Are we using vanilla Ironlands for the archipelago? Maybe there's lots of varied destinations according to the survivors' homelands... maybe this is one of the issues causing strife?

Strife sounds good to me too. We should probably decide how many ships we're talking about. I think something in the lower range (10-20 small ships) keeps things interesting without making them too grand in scale, but I am happy to defer to others on this.

[Wizard of the Coat]

26 minutes ago, Vladim said:

Yes, the 'Viking' longship / longboat. A very casual internet search tells me that the typical crew of the smaller versions was around 20-30 people. But there's no reason for ours not to be operated by a smaller, skeleton crew, or to be an even smaller variety.

I agree that we don't need to strive for historical accuracy. But may I suggest a ship that sounds more like what you're describing. According to Wikipedia:

Quote

The viking knarr was a cargo ship; the hull was wider, deeper and shorter than a longship, and could take more cargo and be operated by smaller crews.

Its oak frame was constructed much deeper which, when paired with a wider body, created an incredibly stable merchant ship. This adaptation allowed it to sail smoothly as well as helped it disband the harshest of ocean waves. Furthermore, the Vikings riveted overlapping planks to the hull, creating the clinker-hull which better suited it for rough waters. Thus, it was around 16 meters long (53 feet) and could carry up to 30 tons (60,000 lbs) of cargo. The final change was the implementation of the sail into Viking ship making. Due to adding sails to the knarr, it was an incredibly low maintenance ship, only needing a crew of six to manage.

Perhaps our fleet consists of longships and knarrs (which might have been used to resupply the army). When it came time to jump in a ship, we grabbed the knarr because it's enhanced stability and cargo capacity, and wider deck, would have been necessary in order to park a wyvern on the deck during travel. The ship would have six crew or possibly a smaller skeleton crew (which might include Ari), our PCs, the wyvern, and maybe a couple-o-three rando passengers. That seems to fit the size and number of people we've been talking about.

If this ship and number of people is too small, the longship works fine for me.

Will respond to more stuff later...

Edited March 27 by Wizard of the Coat (see edit history)

[Vladim]

I'm okay with that.

@Wizard of the Coat @Delorphin @TheObsoleteMan do you think we are ready to start? We can keep on discussing the details but I personally think we are ready to jump into the action.

[Delorphin]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:22 AM, Wizard of the Coat said:

. While most of the other longboats/longships are likely at max capacity or overcrowded, perhaps our longboat/ship is not thanks to the wyvern. Not many people want to sit in cramped quarters next to a wyvern.

Yes, I was thinking of something like that. Combined with the higher food requirements and its propensity towards violence, I doubt many war weary soldiers, who probably at best tolerated the wyvern for its combat used, would tolerate it now when they want to get home peacefully. At least having it would help drag the boat to shore.

 

8 hours ago, Wizard of the Coat said:

The viking knarr was a cargo ship; the hull was wider, deeper and shorter than a longship, and could take more cargo and be operated by smaller crews.

Yeah that's the exact kind of ship I was imagining, I didn't realise it was a merchant vessel.

 

I think we're ready to start, any other details can be ironed out through narrative after all.