Alpha Rules Discussion / Comments / Feedback

[AbsentWizard]

Do you get to choose /which/ troops are disbanded if you're over the allowed unit limit, or is it more FIFO or something?

 

All Units are the same so it doesn't matter which are disbanded.

[AbsentWizard]

The technically Military action to attack an Organization's base is not listed under Military actions.

[AbsentWizard]

There does not seem to be an Industry action to build a base for an Organization.

 

This is intentional. Organization Bases Fall under Great Projects

[AbsentWizard]

There does not appear to be the ability to trade/loan Heroes to other realms during a Diplomacy meet.

[AbsentWizard]

The Intrigue action to Incite Betrayal of Heroes is not listed under Intrigue Actions.

[AbsentWizard]

There does not appear to be a mechanism or action to disband Heroes.

[AbsentWizard]

Can you deliberately lose all records of an explored/known land, as an action? Maps and books burning, so to speak?

[AbsentWizard]

Since regions not under the control of a Player cannot be in Unrest, can one abandon a region and then Press Claim on the region to recover it without having to resort to military actions?

[SerakHawk]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:23 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Diplomacy.Stabilizing a Region has a target range of only your regions, yet Intrigue.Foment Unrest has a target range of everywhere. These two actions should have the same range. There are many historical precedents of sending negotiators or experts between states. Why can't one send a diplomat just as far (into a cooperating state) as spies?

I will allow this to be a technology for Alpha games. Call it peace keeping or something.

I will review and may include range adjustments in future editions of the rules or for ones set in different time periods.

As of Alpha the targeting being limited is staying. To clarify Foment Unrest's range is everywhere you have contact with. Which on splits starts is not everywhere.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:25 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Is it an action or not an action to disband a unit?

Non-Action

On 3/23/2023 at 8:31 PM, AbsentWizard said:

It is unspecified as to when units being traded to someone actually come into the possession of them, and whether they can use these units for all actions. For example:

If realm 1 has a cap of 5 units, then builds 3 units and hosts a diplomatic event to trade 3 units to realm 2, does that mean it does not have to disband any units due to unit cap because it will already be back down to 5 by the time that the over-cap check occurs at the start of the next turn?

If realm 2 accepts 3 units from realm 1, can they use these units on any actions that happen on its turn, or do the units become available for use only at the start of the next turn?

If a small alliance of realms are together, does that mean one realm can host two events per turn: the first event to gather all units in the entire alliance together and send them to whatever realm is actually needing them, and the second event to redistribute the units back to their respective nations or whatever is needed to keep under the unit cap? Basically do we end up with a giant ball of units slosh-teleporting around the alliance at will, so long as someone keeps up the 2/turn summits?

1. When you raise unit you do not gain the benefit of them until the opener of the following round. IE you cannot trade units you just raised in the same round. 

2. Traded units become yours at the opener of the following round you are traded them and the limits are checked at that time. 

You do not gain the benefit of traded items / units / technologies until the opener of the following round and limits cannot be breached - any overflow will be disbanded / lost at the opener.

3. As all actions occur mechanically at the same time you cannot trade the same thing back and forth in the same round as you obtain the benefit of the traded item at the next round opener.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:34 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Does Military.Purge Faith have a range of "borders" or "in contact with" ?

"to clear a faith group from a region they control", by this does this mean a region in the realm, or a region in the faith group?

If it means in a realm, can one purge faith on behalf of another realm ruler who may suck at Military things?

"Region they control" is your regions, you can only military purge faith from regions inside your realm (or vassals' realm) 

On 3/23/2023 at 8:34 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Can regions not currently under the control of a player realm be in unrest?

No. They are not owned by Players.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:36 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Why is it not possible to establish a claim on behalf of another realm? E.G. realm 1 says that realm 2 in fact does have a claim on realm 3's region.

If you have a legitimate claim you can use yours to support someone else who also has a claim for the same region.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, AbsentWizard said:

The language of press claim makes assumptions that are not true of all realms in the game. 

- the existence of the ritual of marriage

- the existence of a dynasty

- the familial nature of the rulers of the realm

Yes, this is mostly because the game was developed without other types of realms and I've been working on making it generalised. Thanks for pointing it out.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Is abandoning your control of a region an action?

It is a Non-Action. You lose all benefits of the region at the next round opener.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:38 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Is abandoning control of a region possible? If so, does it also void the claim on a region?

Yes. See above.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:40 PM, AbsentWizard said:

"successfully establishing a claim happens only once per leader" as in one claim per region per leader, or one claim only per leader?

As Stated, One successful Claim per Leader. Not per Leader per Region.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:41 PM, AbsentWizard said:

"A kingdom can support as many Permanent Cultural Identities as it can establish."  isn't this number infinite?

Yes. Its more vaguely alluding to the fact that it requires a 10 special action to do. 

On 3/23/2023 at 8:45 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Can one raise a city in someone else's region, with permission? Like hiring a bunch of masons and master carpenters.

No. Target is your own regions. This can be done to a vassal's region as their regions count as yours, but the vassal retains the benefits of the City.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:49 PM, AbsentWizard said:

If anything being traded/transferred during a Diplomacy meeting becomes available during the next round, what happens if two realms constantly transfer treasure back and forth and thus they never actually have access to it (that is to say, as soon as they get it, it's sent on its way again) - does treasure transferred this way become more difficult to steal?

As the treasure is traded at the same time as any other actions like thief this does not protect the treasure.

Realm 1 gives Realm 2 a treasure. Realm 3 steal a treasure targeting Realm 1 and succeeds.

If Realm 1 has more than one treasure, Realm 3 takes a treasure from Realm 1 and Realm 2 gets the traded treasure from Realm 1, leaving Realm 1 down two treasures.

If Realm 1 has a single treasure Realm 3 steals the treasure in transit. Realm 2 gets no treasure from the trade as it was stolen and Realm 1 is down a treasure.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:49 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Is it possible to take specific actions to more carefully secure treasure? Build a giant vault?

This would fall under Great Projects which are loose ended like Techs and Miracles.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:50 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Do you get to choose /which/ troops are disbanded if you're over the allowed unit limit, or is it more FIFO or something?

All Units are the same so it doesn't matter which are disbanded.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:51 PM, AbsentWizard said:

The technically Military action to attack an Organization's base is not listed under Military actions.

There is no action, purge would be the closest but that requires your own regions as a target. Destroying the base requires an Intrigue special action. If you own the region there is no contested roll to destroy it making the inclusion in purge breaking the balance of requiring a special action.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:52 PM, AbsentWizard said:

There does not seem to be an Industry action to build a base for an Organization.

This is intentional. Organization Bases Fall under Great Projects

On 3/23/2023 at 8:53 PM, AbsentWizard said:

There does not appear to be the ability to trade/loan Heroes to other realms during a Diplomacy meet.

Heroes count as a tradeable item like artifacts, treasures and technologies so they are included in the full transfer. The ownership will change hands at the next round opener and the new owner realm is not required to trade them back. (There is no automatic loan requirement)

On 3/23/2023 at 8:54 PM, AbsentWizard said:

The Intrigue action to Incite Betrayal of Heroes is not listed under Intrigue Actions.

It is? Special 10: Incite Betrayal

On 3/23/2023 at 8:54 PM, AbsentWizard said:

There does not appear to be a mechanism or action to disband Heroes.

You may disband any hero employed by your realm as a non-action. 

On 3/23/2023 at 8:57 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Can you deliberately lose all records of an explored/known land, as an action? Maps and books burning, so to speak?

Not mechanically. This would potentially lead to exploring the exploration mechanics that may give you bonuses to "finding" a previously forgotten land. You may do this IC, but it will have not mechanical impact.

On 3/23/2023 at 10:07 PM, AbsentWizard said:

Since regions not under the control of a Player cannot be in Unrest, can one abandon a region and then Press Claim on the region to recover it without having to resort to military actions?

Yes, But again as previously stated you lose the region at the next opener. And you will need to get a successful press claim attempt in the following round.

Round 1: Lose the region

Round 2: Attempt to Establish Claim (TN 12)

Round 3: Press the Claim (TN 12) if round 2 was successful.

Round 4: Continue the press claim if it was not a Great Success (TN 18)

VS

Round 1: Stabilize a Region (TN 12) / Suppress Unrest (TN 14)

[SerakHawk]

RAW: Most actions are based on having Contact - Some actions required direct path (War, Converting). I will add a note to the alpha rules feedback that this should be reviewed and clarified as nowhere in E6 (that I could find) did it specify that the fog of war blocks all actions / events / interaction if contact was made. Non-Exhaustive list of actions with contact:

• Can buyout trade posts (and exchange)
• Can attend events
• Can seek aid for another realm if the same faith
• Can quest (if relevant)
• Can make embassies
• Can Forment Unrest
• Can Raid
• Can Theft
• Can Slander

• Cannot Convert
• Cannot Deploy Forces
• Cannot Sack (requires adjacent or shared waterway anyway)

[SerakHawk]

Press Claim does not provide what occurs on a failed press claim attempt. Do you lose the established claim or are you free to attempt a first go another time?

[SerakHawk]

Bundle of Alpha Changes / Clarifications:

Rule 2.3: Make clearer that you assign the rolled scores for your first ruler.	Sack Action add: "When a city is devastated it loses all benefits for the owner and cannot be Sacked again until it is repaired, You may not repair a city on the same round it is Sacked"
Industry Repair Action for A City, If a city is devastated a repair industry action is required by the owner of the region to repair it. This will require a TN industry roll of 10 to successfully repair the city.	Raise a City Action: Clarification on the resource the City provides as it is supposed to not entirely count as a normal trade post: "... which provides the owner of the City with a local resource as if it was a trading post (counts for income). This resource cannot be bought-out and is lost if the City is damaged (devastated)."
Raise Organization by trading in favor. This can only occur once per round as a non-action for 1 favor. Ways to raise rep in rounds: 1: Raise Rep Action 2: Trade Favor for Rep (Non-Action) 3: Fulfil an Org's Request(s) that awards Rep	Clarify using Favor and Reputation requirements: There is a two-step process to Org Favors. You must have a Favor Owed to you by an Org and you must have a positive reputation with the Org. Having a Favor without Rep equates to your Favor only being useful as a Rep booster and nothing else. It's a nuanced rule, best spelled out in the rules.
Per Ducj instructions, noting that perhaps the Claims Process should be broken out into Establish Claim (Claim Region) Press Claim (Develop Regional Claim) Complete Claim (Integrate Region) as the current process seems to cause a lot of misunderstanding.	Making a note here for desirable rule adjustments, Duel Rolls should probably be excluded from unrest penalties along with battle and stabilize rolls.
Upgrade a Resource: RAW says this is used to upgrade a resource into a better type of resource that makes sense. RAI from discord discussion is that this is more accurately a "Transform Resource" signifying either an improvement of the local industry to something higher or to represent an entire shift in resource production. IE instead of just wild horses to domesticated horses, it could be horses to copper to represent the people living there being forced to mine for copper. When used in this way it used to also reduce the supply of the region by 1.	Is it an action or not an action to disband a unit?   Non-Action
Does Military.Purge Faith have a range of "borders" or "in contact with" ? "to clear a faith group from a region they control", by this does this mean a region in the realm, or a region in the faith group? If it means in a realm, can one purge faith on behalf of another realm ruler who may suck at Military things?   "Region they control" is your regions, you can only military purge faith from regions inside your realm (or vassals' realm)	The language of press claim makes assumptions that are not true of all realms in the game.  - the existence of the ritual of marriage - the existence of a dynasty - the familial nature of the rulers of the realm   Yes, this is mostly because the game was developed without other types of realms and I've been working on making it generalized. Thanks for pointing it out.
There does not seem to be an Industry action to build a base for an Organization.   This is intentional. Organization Bases Fall under Great Projects Add clarification in the rules	There does not appear to be the ability to trade/loan Heroes to other realms during a Diplomacy meet. - highlight this trade ability
RAW: Most actions are based on having Contact - Some actions required direct path (War, Converting). I will add a note to the alpha rules feedback that this should be reviewed and clarified as nowhere in E6 (that I could find) did it specify that the fog of war blocks all actions / events / interaction if contact was made. Non-Exhaustive list of actions with contact: Can buyout trade posts (and exchange) Can attend events Can seek aid for another realm if the same faith Can quest (if relevant) Can make embassies Can Forment Unrest Can Raid Can Theft Can Slander Cannot Convert Cannot Deploy Forces Cannot Sack (requires adjacent or shared waterway anyway)	Clarify all round actions occur at the end of the round at the same time: 1. When you raise unit you do not gain the benefit of them until the opener of the following round. IE you cannot trade units you just raised in the same round.  2. Traded units become yours at the opener of the following round you are traded them and the limits are checked at that time.  You do not gain the benefit of traded items / units / technologies until the opener of the following round and limits cannot be breached - any overflow will be disbanded / lost at the opener. 3. As all actions occur mechanically at the same time you cannot trade the same thing back and forth in the same round as you obtain the benefit of the traded item at the next round opener.
The technically Military action to attack an Organization's base is not listed under Military actions. There is no action, purge would be the closest but that requires your own regions as a target. Destroying the base requires an Intrigue special action. If you own the region there is no contested roll to destroy it making the inclusion in purge breaking the balance of requiring a special action.	Press Claim does not provide what occurs on a failed press claim attempt. Do you lose the established claim or are you free to attempt a first go another time? > From Discord you maintain the claim and can press again later - claim is only lost if you only do a single round press claim and it needs the 2nd round to finish and you don't complete the second round - reflecting you spurring the inhabitants
Review Rebel Rules and adjust