Investigating mysteries in D&D 5E?

[Snicker]

Backstory: a while ago, I was going to join a D&D 5E game based heavily on pulpy ghost stories, so I whipped up a "private detective" (a wizard with a focus on investigative spells). The game ran out of steam and died, as they tend to do, before I got the chance to do any detecting (privately or otherwise), but it left me wondering: how well can one pull off a mystery adventure in the system?

I've played and run mysteries in a variety of game systems (it's pretty standard for Call of Cthulhu adventures, for example), but not D&D 5E. Looking about online, I've seen most concern about how magic spells can completely circumvent the typical murder mystery (by reading people's minds or talking to the dead, for example). It makes me wonder if one could adapt the structure to avoid those pitfalls, or even to benefit from them - making those abilities an important part of solving the mystery, for example.

Has anyone ever tried anything like this, and if so, how did it work out?

[Jedaii]

D&D isn't the best system for mysteries. I mean you can use it but there are far better systems. For mysteries with a semi-ancient fantasy setting, Swords of the Serpentine is perfect. Another good system is Lorefinder. These systems are designed specifically for investigating mysteries and have rules to keep magic from ruining the adventure.

[Snicker]

I could learn those systems...but then I'd never find anyone else who plays them. At least with D&D I'd get a chance to play or run it. There's also things I specifically enjoy about 5E, unrelated to investigations.

[Vladim]

It will really depend on your GM, but I think the solution lies in making said spells useful without reducing them to "I win" buttons. In a setting where Speak with dead is easily available, who would risk committing a murder, and how? A good GM could come up with interesting and believable answers.

[Jedaii]

3 hours ago, Snicker said:

I could learn those systems...but then I'd never find anyone else who plays them. At least with D&D I'd get a chance to play or run it. There's also things I specifically enjoy about 5E, unrelated to investigations.

Well if you're the GM you teach players the new system. If GMs don't expose players to new systems that's how the hobby stagnates.

Teaching new systems.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Jedaii (see edit history)

[Llyarden]

3 hours ago, Snicker said:

I could learn those systems...but then I'd never find anyone else who plays them. At least with D&D I'd get a chance to play or run it. There's also things I specifically enjoy about 5E, unrelated to investigations.

Lorefinder is Pathfinder with GUMSHOE elements tagged on to it, you could most likely use it as inspiration for a 5e version.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

26 minutes ago, Llyarden said:

Lorefinder is Pathfinder with GUMSHOE elements tagged on to it, you could most likely use it as inspiration for a 5e version.

 

Even without incorporating any of the mechanics of Lorefinder / GUMSHHOE, you can apply the GUMSHOE philosophy to your investigations. Primarily, this is not to lock critical information behind skill rolls. If there is a critical clue to your mystery, tell the players about that critical clue right away, and then let them use skill rolls to gain additional information that is helpful, but not necessary.

[yxanthymir]

I tried to make one, but using DND is far from ideal. Too many spells break the investigation and if you are not a caster, you would be useless.

There are possibilities though. You can change the world to adapt some rules, like disallow contact with the spirit realm; or make the world work for you, in this case it is almost certain you will still break some rule, like make a lie undetectable.

I tried a game using Gumshoe instead, but the game didn't go anywhere by lack of players. And certainly it was the best setting and adventure that I had the opportunity to create. :(

[cailano]

I ran an investigation-centric mini-campaign in Pathfinder 1e, a system that I suspect would be equally suited to running mysteries in terms of both pros and cons. It actually ran fine. The characters were all third-level, so they didn't have access to very powerful magic. They investigated scenes, found clues, talked to suspicious persons, etc. Eventually, they got to the heart of the mystery and ended the threat by defeating the boss and her minions.

The non-casters were not useless. In fact, the game's star was a brand-new player running a Fighter/Rogue. She'd never even played an RPG before and came because her boyfriend invited her. Great player, though.

So, the mystery itself worked fine. I think the challenge in bringing other genres into D&D is ensuring you still have a D&D game. The mysteries tend to require location exploration (dungeons, manor houses, etc), and there are a couple of combats per play session. Unless your group is on board, you don't want to turn your game into Call of Cthulu or Gumshoe. That's not what the players signed up to play.

My campaign lasted for six over-the-table sessions of about 3 - 4 hours each. We had probably 12 - 15 combat encounters sprinkled in there, along with several investigation scenes, a big chase scene, a couple of interrogation scenes, a few puzzles, and some devious traps. It was definitely a D&D (well, Pathfinder) game, even though a murder mystery lay at the heart of it all. Much fun was had by everyone.

[yxanthymir]

I would hardly call that an investigation game. It is the usual fare of games of this type. There is almost always some sort of investigation, in various degrees, but the answer is always clear to go to next encounter, or easily found. So it is more a game with an investigation than an investigation game. At least in my opinion.

In this case it totally works just fine.

[cailano]

35 minutes ago, yxanthymir said:

I would hardly call that an investigation game. It is the usual fare of games of this type. There is almost always some sort of investigation, in various degrees, but the answer is always clear to go to next encounter, or easily found. So it is more a game with an investigation than an investigation game. At least in my opinion.

In this case it totally works just fine.

Yeah, exactly. It was a Pathfinder game with a strong investigation component. Which is what I recommend. If you want a pure investigation game, there are better systems. Plus, you wouldn't need most of what Pathfinder or 5e offer.

It's kind of like when you bring horror elements into a D&D game. You can do it, and it can be really fun, but it won't be a straight horror game. It will be a D&D game with a strong horror component. See: Ravenloft or Carrion Crown (Pathfinder).

 

[Vladim]

Regardless of what the OP goes for, the Alexandrian and Seth Skorkowski (did I type that right?) have excellent advice for running mysteries and investigative games.

[Thay Lord]

Yes. The game system for a game style does not matter. It's only a thing for people obsessed with the rule playing: some people like the game play where they encounter "mystery seven" and then roll a check and discover a clue.

 

5E works just fine for mysteries, as long as they are slightly above "Scooby Do" level mysteries. Magic and spells have all sorts of limits. And only the dumb npc do things in easy view of people and leave obvious clues. Even simple things like killing an npc from behind...then they don't know who killed them. And D&D is full of disguises and illusions and such. So, sure, talk to a dead body and he will say "the king of Orlor killed me"...and sure that is what they "remember seeing". And the sneaky killer could also cast 'speak with the dead' first....and then the 'good guys' can't cast it on the body when they find it...as per the spell description.

 

Though really, the Old School type play style goes around and over and beyond the rules. You can have a ton of spells, but you need to know how, when and where to use them. And 'core 5E really does not have investigation or detective type spells....

 

I add mystery to most adventures....and love players that solve mysteries For Real...not just rollout some dice to "solve" things. Though such players are rare.

 

[cailano]

52 minutes ago, Thay Lord said:

 

 

I add mystery to most adventures....and love players that solve mysteries For Real...not just rollout some dice to "solve" things. Though such players are rare.

 

Here here. As an OSR GM, this resonates. The answer isn't on the character sheet, it's in the game world. Immersion requires active participation.

 

[Actana]

2 hours ago, Thay Lord said:

Yes. The game system for a game style does not matter. It's only a thing for people obsessed with the rule playing: some people like the game play where they encounter "mystery seven" and then roll a check and discover a clue.

 

I add mystery to most adventures....and love players that solve mysteries For Real...not just rollout some dice to "solve" things. Though such players are rare.

 

That feels like a most uncharitable characterization of people who like having rules built for purpose.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Actana (see edit history)