Moose Hunt OOC

[Zen Gypsy]

I disagree, reactions, immunities, resistances, special abilities, etc, are far more important than savesand those would still be hidden. The other just helps keep play by post moving, in my opinion. Maybe I'll change my mind after using it, we'll see.

[Kistler]

Only one of the games I'm in lists the saves. It actually posts the whole bestiary entry. It is the slowest game I'm in, a reliable 1 post/week.

I've been in several very fast games and some very slow games that don't post ooc monster info.

I think it's flawed to conflate ooc info with pace.

I think we are all natural optimizers. This information would do more for optimization than it would for post rate. Plus we're already calling out the dm on 'why didn't my attack do the thing' when we don't know the enemy stat block. Ostensibly.

If i sound rude is probably because I've been up half the night with the baby. It's a fun age because i can blame him for things and he can't defend himself. Anyway, i don't mean to be rude, just grumpy and tired. I like playing with you guys because you're passionate and involved. The worst is when you're playing with a bunch of ghosts who you're always begging to post.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Kistler (see edit history)

[Vedast]

1 hour ago, Kistler said:

Plus we're already calling out the dm on 'why didn't my attack do the thing' when we don't know the enemy stat block.

So expressing an "I don't understand" inquiry to the GM as to why a net 22 (as I thought of it at the time) result at 1st level wasn't successful against a Common animal target is "calling out the GM?" Or expressing surprise at finding an opposed roll mechanic being used in a PF2e game? Huh.

Some good came from my posing this question to the GM and the subsequent discussion:

• I learned something important in that flanking does not apply to any 'attack,' but is defined only vs. AC via the flat-footed condition. Given my intended character build, this is significant.
• We all learned that GM was utilizing hidden opposed rolls. That might be a GM's prerogative, but mutual trust in a Game would seem to suggest that we should know and, in particular, as I outlined in detail, using Athletics maneuvers is key to my character build: so any significant changes to those mechanics as practiced by the GM should be known by all parties. I understand GM is new at this system, and likely wasn't aware that opposed rolls isn't a standard PF2e mechanic, but I submit is was valuable for all to be aware of this before a more critical in-game situation arises.

As for "knowing an enemy stat block," IMHO a character is not a tabula rasa in their world and the Recall Knowledge check should not replace what should be considered reasonable in-game knowledge. In this specific case, a fighter with a megafauna hunter background should have a decent sense (if not specific detail) as to what sort of effort might reasonably be effective against hunting/tripping Common prey such as a moose. Now, had that 22 result been reported as a miss when attacking a Sand Wolf, an Aberration, or Magical Beast, I probably would not have thought to inquire and simply figured that we are in trouble.

I gather debates about Recall Knowledge vis-a-vis the Roll Play vs. Role Play spectrum are legion, so I don't mean to belabor that point: but I tend to operate from the perspective that characters shouldn't have to RK to know most "Common" information, at least generally.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the USA and a peaceful day to the rest of you.

 

[allefgib]

Good reminder - Happy Thanksgiving :)

I'm quite comfortable there have been mistakes. Personally discussing them interests me... to a point. I'd rather just see the story move forward, errors or otherwise :)

I just like to post as accurately to the rules as possible - but let the GM do what they want unless I'm really confused. They'll make mistakes. Heck, sometimes they'll fudge - its their game. I just want to play the story and my character. (I totally get build investment needing to be supported - always have those discussions)

[Vedast]

Detour from previous exchanges.

Debriefing myself on: making use of the Aid Action @Zen Gypsy et al.

I don't think I made use of Gol'garath's Aid Action explicitly. I'm not sure it would have stacked with Flanking, but let me run through what I considered to check my understanding of those mechanics.

• Gol'garath rolled a Aid Check (for assisting Qingalath) that was a 21.
• The default DC is somewhat flat 20 (but I understand from reading that this is a common homebrewed topic?).
• So assuming that was a success, then Gol'garath uses his reaction (if not already spent) to give a +1 (or +2 on a crit) circumstance bonus to Qingalic's attack (which would have stacked with the status bonus from the moose being Frightened via Demoralization). So +1 here.
• The moose was also subject to a -2 circumstance penalty to AC due to flanking (=> flat-footed). This would not have stacked with the Aid circumstance bonus, correct?

So in this case, the circumstance penalty (from flanking) was better than the circumstance bonus from Aid so the former was preferred?

In any case, I wanted to run this by Zen Gypsy and folks to check my understanding of how this works, particularly for situations where we cannot generate a mutual flanking situation.

PS Later add. Curious. Would the circumstance bonus from the Aid Action have applied to a Trip since the circumstance penalty to AC from flanking would not have applied to that sort of maneuver (as I recently was made aware)? In this case, Tripping the moose at the stage was not optimal, but thinking to future encounters.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Vedast (see edit history)

[Zen Gypsy]

Yes, but no. So a couple reminders, Frightened gives a status *penalty* to all of the target's saves, including AC. Flat Footed imposes a -2 circumstance penalty to AC and Aid provides a +1 circumstance *bonus* to a, specific, allies attack.

So, assuming you're Expert proficiency & 18 strength, you are +9 to Attack. Just for numbers sake, we'll assume an AC of 21 & Reflex of +11 ... so an attack on a Frightened Flanked Moose would be at +9 (+10 with Aid) vs an AC of 18 (21-2(flanked)-1(frightened)), whereas a Trip assuming Trained Athletics would be at +7(+8 with Aid) vs a Reflex DC of 20 (21-1(frightened)). Given your expert training with the glaive, I think the straight damage was the best bet ...

However, Aid can be used to assist any check, it just needs to be stated. Usually it should be using the same skill, ie. Arcana for aiding on an Arcane Identify task, but since Trip has the Attack trait, most GM's are more lenient for that.

[BarbarossaLives]

After reading thorough all of that and it depending so much on the players communicating, I’m wondering if there should be a “is this your final answer”step in our game play and if so has anyone else played a game using that. What I’m thinking is when everyone post. The whole group can talk amongst themselves. And edit their original post. And post “Ready” or “done” when all the disisions are made. I don’t want to get to much player over character stuff going on but there are a lot of situations you guys are using in combat the genuinely change depending on the actions of others. Which I think is awesome. I just want a way that everyone has a fair chance to respond and all the bonus don’t get lost or become to much to handle.
 

what are your thoughts?

[Kistler]

Just tumble forward, don't worry about the specifics of rules too much. If something's egregious (abd would actually have consequences) we can retcon, otherwise just keep going. Try to assume our characters aren't idiots, so if something is vague, like assume we're not trying to climb in the dragon's mouth accidentally. Otherwise, more story than rules rules rules perfectly accurate.

PF2E generally gives free healing and parties are always having tea parties after each combat until everyone is healed up. So most combat has very little in terms of consequences unless it's deadly or the plot is forcing us to move on without healing. If someone forgot a +1 that would've ended combat a round earlier it rarely matters.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Kistler (see edit history)

[Zen Gypsy]

Another good tool would be a dedicated Frozen Flame Discord server, it allows quicker communication and co-ordination in real time than post wait, review, edit, etc. It's something that several of us already do for other games, if that's something that interest's you @BarbarossaLives

[BarbarossaLives]

Discord Server started maybe it will help the ooc threads not to be insane

 

https://discord.gg/HHSBJVje

[Zen Gypsy]

@BarbarossaLives Any reaction from Pakano when Gol'garath tells him to stop acting like a child? I really need to know what happens before I make my next post.

[BarbarossaLives]

3 hours ago, Zen Gypsy said:

@BarbarossaLives Any reaction from Pakano when Gol'garath tells him to stop acting like a child? I really need to know what happens before I make my next post.

His reaction is still that of a spoiled child. He basically repeats his need to rule and punish. He is still arrogant and treats you like you have no business taking with him or telling him what to do.
 

if case it’s of interest. He is not a part of your group for the next day.

[Kistler]

Are we using hero point rules at all? Would probably hero point that nature roll.

[Zen Gypsy]

Would it be possible to learn the feat from Imek later in the adventure during downtime?

[Feuerrabe]

I have two questions regarding the "Tame Animal" feat:

• Is Myriawen allowed to use it even though she doesn't fulfil the prerequisite, namely "Trained in Nature"?
• It is my understanding that we cannot use the feat right now, as it explicitly states it only works on creatures that aren't trapped, doesn't it?