Lines Drawn in the Sand

[Malkavian Grin]

So, it has been brought to my attention that some of the themes here (even just creating your character) could be too disgusting for some people. I've decided to implement a small questionnaire to figure out how far is too far. Keep in mind, this game follows the policies set forth for Myth-Weavers. Certain topics, such as sex, torture, and extreme violence will be faded to black without exception.

As such, this game contains suicide, murder, bleak outlooks, depression, (fictional) drug use, insects and vermin, death-and-rebirth, and other such dark topics as part of the setting.

Results

None yet.

Please answer the following, in this thread. I'll compile results in this first post.

• Veils
  • What are the topics/themes you are okay with having in the game, but would rather not have described heavily? (I am very descriptive as a GM). These issues will be lightly described, and then faded to black.
• Lines
  • What are the topics/themes you are not okay with having in the game, period? These issues will not be described nor exist in your vicinity (though still may be present elsewhere in the world where you don't see/interact with them).

[Dixi]

Never knew I can be oversensitive to something and in need of some boundaries, but then I read the tables for "Broken Bodies" and "Bad Habits". Turned out, there are things I can not stand. In short, it's disgusting things applied to my character. I can RP a suicidal drug user, but I absolutely can not RP a suicidal drug user with a habit of "picking nose so deep it bleeds". I feel sick merely reading about it.

Can not define it better, unfortunately. Also, can not tell if I freak out should someone else take it as a "bad habit", but would much appreciate it if I never have to find out.

[Malkavian Grin]

17 minutes ago, Dixi said:

Never knew I can be oversensitive to something and in need of some boundaries, but then I read the tables for "Broken Bodies" and "Bad Habits". Turned out, there are things I can not stand. In short, it's disgusting things applied to my character. I can RP a suicidal drug user, but I absolutely can not RP a suicidal drug user with a habit of "picking nose so deep it bleeds". I feel sick merely reading about it.

Can not define it better, unfortunately. Also, can not tell if I freak out should someone else take it as a "bad habit", but would much appreciate it if I never have to find out.

While your comment pertains to other players (and is a very fair point!), know that I myself may roll on these tables for NPCs you run across if I want to make them more unique than others.

I need to know what things you won't be okay with for me to describe as part of the environment, so I can glaze it over or disclude. I'm happy to throw out some of those entries (please just say which ones), but perhaps you run across someone in a cell and they are busy eating cockroaches or an uncooked rat or a Human hand or something--is that going to be too far?

My imagination is vast; please help me reign it in to an appropriate point for you.

[Dixi]

I wish I could be more specific, but I can not. As long as it's not me and my character who should RP this stuff, it should be ok. I mentioned other players mostly because NPCs are temporary things, while team-mates are permanent.

Really, go wild!

[Malkavian Grin]

@Dixi Gotcha! Okay, I'll proceed as intended, but if something comes up that is absolutely dire and you can't deal with--please reach out to me and we'll work to adjust.

We're all here to have fun, but not at anyone's expense.

[TheObsoleteMan]

As long as we stick to the MW rules, I'll be fine with anything else. I'm down for a dark and grimy time, but will of course respect everyone else's boundaries.

[GaryD20]

I'm fine with anything. The more ****ed up the better. 

[Vedast]

I probably have a high tolerance for grimdark and dystopian themes.  I have noted however, the use of some specific terms in an otherwise seemingly generic setting, that is, terms that are explicit references to or warping of Catholic concepts and practices e.g. crucifixes and Purgatory (usually misunderstood).  I don't quite get why such terms need to be used other than the authors of MB were trying to gain some cheap "edge" points when creativity failed. 

Perhaps generic terms like "holy symbol" or purification could be used instead of these specific ones?   

The fact that I'm here means I'm not recapitulating the 80's "S*t*nic Panic," (which I'm old enough to recall as an adult) but that doesn't mean one has to appreciate negative appropriation of one's religion.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Vedast (see edit history)

[Malkavian Grin]

3 hours ago, Vedast said:

I probably have a high tolerance for grimdark and dystopian themes.  I have noted however, the use of some specific terms in an otherwise seemingly generic setting, that is, terms that are explicit references to or warping of Catholic concepts and practices e.g. crucifixes and Purgatory (usually misunderstood).  I don't quite get why such terms need to be used other than the authors of MB were trying to gain some cheap "edge" points when creativity failed. 

Perhaps generic terms like "holy symbol" or purification could be used instead of these specific ones?   

The fact that I'm here means I'm not recapitulating the 80's "S*t*nic Panic," (which I'm old enough to recall as an adult) but that doesn't mean one has to appreciate negative appropriation of one's religion.

I'm fairly certain the designers are both Scandinavian, which historically has taken issue with Catholicism. In my limited research this is from a sense of misappropriation. Thus where the warping of these things comes into play (of which I think is intentional, to "reappropriate" as it were).

That's just my guess.

I'm not a spiritual person, but am respectful of those that wish to be. If this is an issue for you, I'll use more generic connotations where needed (and if I say something new that has yet to be presented, such as demons or something [of which will be of particular interest in our first adventure], please speak up. I'm not here to persecute, just torment).

[Vedast]

10 minutes ago, Malkavian Grin said:

I'm fairly certain the designers are both Scandinavian, which historically has taken issue with Catholicism. In my limited research this is from a sense of misappropriation. Thus where the warping of these things comes into play (of which I think is intentional, to "reappropriate" as it were).

This is likely not the place to debate historicity -- given Scandinavia was significantly Catholic since the 10th century, albeit protestant since the 16th; or neo-pagan archaeologism or antiquarianism.  As always with such things, how far back do we go in our claims of legitimacy?  Such matters were seldom quiescent even in the ancient world. 

To the point here, however, I'm fine with game monsters; evil spiritual beings (devils; daemons; demons) and such in a pantheistic game world.  My objection as per the original post is with incorporating real-life religious, specifically Catholic, elements into the game world.  So I would not welcome references to crucifixes; "black masses" or sacrileges against the Blessed Sacrament.  If the Mörk Borg system demands such as you'd like to run it, then I should probably withdraw with no hard feelings: it just wouldn't be the game for me.  I think we'd messaged back and forth enough for you to know that I mean that.  

Now, if a priest of Hextor wants to desecrate a church dedicated to Heironeous (just going with Greyhawke for an example) I'm fine with that just as I'm not going to rise in indignation over slavery or piracy or necromancy in a game or be too concerned about head-of-household status of an ogre. I enjoy Dark Souls III -- and that is pretty grim. 

So just let me know --- I don't wish to ruin the experience that you'd like to run.  🙂

[Malkavian Grin]

I'm equally not a historian, so I'll leave that discussion where it is. I'll just mess more up if I don't.

My intention here is to be inclusive. While some of the Mörk Borg elements do refer to such things (such as the last ability of the Heretical Priest) they are not necessary for "the experience" as it were. They can be replaced wholesale with generics without much changing.

You will need to let me know if I use such terminology, though, as I may unwittingly reproduce something from a module which I don't recognize. I couldn't even tell you what Blessed Sacrament means or refers to, let alone a black mass (or even a regular mass to be honest). I was last in church as a very small child and have never read any religious text. So, I may speak out of turn without realizing.

This is the reason I made this chat. I value your presence; you're a fun person and have an interesting mind. A little bit of change shouldn't get in the way of that.