Ocean Fairing Adventure: What system?

[Inquisitor D]

Okay, age old dilemma here, friends of the Weave, so I'll throw this out there to y'all

I have a basic idea for a game I want to run. I'm gonna outline what I'm thinking in rough, then break down the two systems I'm trying to pick between. Feel free to vote, weigh in, however you wanna engage with this. If you've got a system you really want to pitch as a counterpick... well, I'll consider anything. ^^

Odyssey

I'm looking to run a fun seafairing adventure game, where the players explore a series of crazy islands. My plans are drawing heavy inspiration from One Piece, and while I don't think I'm gonna go quite as comedic as Oda likes to get, nothing in that series would be out of limits for what I'd like from this game. Players would have a lot of freedom with their background, each one coming up with their own native island and the civilization who resides upon it, and I'd like PCs to feel pretty immediately powerful and cool right off the bat, while still having potential to grow.

 

Option 1: Exalted 3rd Edition

Exalted is always the RPG I think of when it comes to big bombastic action adventure stuff, and its setting actually supports this concept pretty well. The West is big enough to throw all sorts of isolated island civilizations in there. If we go this route, it's be a pretty solid set up for a game that could teach new players Exalted: both in rules and setting concepts. I personally am a bit more... gonzo than Ex3's basic approach implies, so if going with this one we'll have a few houserules. Brawl + MA Unity f'rinstance, and none of those pesky First Age Artifice rules. It's a punitive mechanic designed to make the setting adhere to a tone I actively dislike. I might throw a lack of repair parts or expertise at you as a complication, but you want a giant mech? You have a giant mech.

 

Option 2: Pathfinder 2nd Edition

Pathfinder will need a bit more tuning to get the same high action feeling as Exalted, but I suspect it would be pretty viable to accomplish this in 2nd Edition. Free Archetype rules, a Level 5 start, and perhaps a little something something of my own to give the PCs an extra boost. The issue here is that this concept won't play so neatly in Golarion as it might in Creation. It'd require an original setting: even with players designing individual island civilizations, I'll need to pull some work in to round out the rest of the world, add creative tissue, ect. It also feels like it'd be a harder onboard for players, even though the rules are openly and officially available via Archive of Nethys. With Exalted, I could use basic character creation rules: even slimming them down further if we're dealing with newbies. If I want that vibe with Pathfinder, and I'm asking for a level five start with even more feats, I'm a little concerned casual people who aren't as familiar with the game might be a bit intimidated.

Thoughts? Concerns? Alternate plans? Attempts to dissuade my from my folly? The floor is yours, folks!

[Jedaii]

Hello @Inquisitor D

You're covering the "mechanical" aspects of what you're looking to do, but what exactly would the PCs be doing on the islands? What's the purpose of the islands? Are the PCs a team or individuals?

[Inquisitor D]

7 hours ago, Jedaii said:

Hello @Inquisitor D

You're covering the "mechanical" aspects of what you're looking to do, but what exactly would the PCs be doing on the islands? What's the purpose of the islands? Are the PCs a team or individuals?

To a degree, that ambiguity was intentional. Giving people room to make their own islands would require me to root plot material in the area. Plus since these would be different settings, it'd make sense for these to lead to somewhat different tales.

In general though, I'm thinking a collection of individuals who'll get the motivation to become a crew in game. There'll be some unexplored crazy islands, some inhabited ones, some dealing with people some treasure hunting. Exact blend will depend on party.

[Jedaii]

6 hours ago, Inquisitor D said:

To a degree, that ambiguity was intentional. Giving people room to make their own islands would require me to root plot material in the area. Plus since these would be different settings, it'd make sense for these to lead to somewhat different tales.

In general though, I'm thinking a collection of individuals who'll get the motivation to become a crew in game. There'll be some unexplored crazy islands, some inhabited ones, some dealing with people some treasure hunting. Exact blend will depend on party.

How much combat?

[Inquisitor D]

7 minutes ago, Jedaii said:

How much combat?

I mean... how do you quantify that? Compared to a dungeon crawl?

There'll be a fair amount: I want cool action scenes. But I try to make combat a set piece thing, less fights with bigger stakes and longer odds. Plus I offer alternatives as much as possible. If you're on a treasure hunt, the guardian might be intent on fighting you, but if the PCs can get the treasure anyway that's something to be rewarded.

[Peachyco]

Ironsworn, or better yet, Ironsworn: Starforged reflavored for sea adventures (as opposed to space adventures). There are mechanics for exploration, and if you run out of ideas, the system has mechanics for generating ideas on the fly. ^_^

[Inquisitor D]

5 minutes ago, Peachyco said:

Ironsworn, or better yet, Ironsworn: Starforged reflavored for sea adventures (as opposed to space adventures). There are mechanics for exploration, and if you run out of ideas, the system has mechanics for generating ideas on the fly. ^_^

How would you say it does for high power crazy fighting? With the name Ironsworn I'd figure it was going for a more grounded take. That kinda screams the sorta dark low-fantasy vibe to me. (But hey, if it's got an SF spinoff....)

[Jedaii]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor D said:

I mean... how do you quantify that? Compared to a dungeon crawl?

There'll be a fair amount: I want cool action scenes. But I try to make combat a set piece thing, less fights with bigger stakes and longer odds. Plus I offer alternatives as much as possible. If you're on a treasure hunt, the guardian might be intent on fighting you, but if the PCs can get the treasure anyway that's something to be rewarded.

Pathfinder and Exalted are both "crunchy" systems with a strong leaning towards combat. Both also have very rich connected settings. Now, you posted that players will be essentially creating their own islands (setting) and that there will be less combat. Given all that, IMO you should use a system that focuses on what you plan to do best: look at Dungeon World and its The Perilous Wilds supplement. They're perfect as they focus on collaborative world-building and exploration. There's a decent combat system as well.

[Inquisitor D]

17 minutes ago, Jedaii said:

Pathfinder and Exalted are both "crunchy" systems with a strong leaning towards combat. Both also have very rich connected settings. Now, you posted that players will be essentially creating their own islands (setting) and that there will be less combat. Given all that, IMO you should use a system that focuses on what you plan to do best: look at Dungeon World and its The Perilous Wilds supplement. They're perfect as they focus on collaborative world-building and exploration. There's a decent combat system as well.

Slight problem

I hate PbtA!

Okay, that's too strong but I tend to dislike rules light games in general. I enjpy a degree of crunch - I feel it makes scenes more impactful. And the Apoc Engine tends to have less than I'd prefer. It sits in a weird place for me, more codified than Fate but too light for that mechanical weight to have a ton of impact

I'm not a never say never to PbtA but it doesn't have that feeling of hype to me that I want for this game specifically. I'm looking for a fun adventure, and a big part of that is cool, high power, exciting fight scenes. I feel its hard to do that rules light. If I was, I'd shoot for something more like Panic at the Dojo. Still crunch but more approachable, y'know?

[Jedaii]

Seems like you're leaning towards Exalted. Run that, if it does what you want 🙂

[Malkavian Grin]

35 minutes ago, Inquisitor D said:

Slight problem

I hate PbtA!

Okay, that's too strong but I tend to dislike rules light games in general. I enjpy a degree of crunch - I feel it makes scenes more impactful. And the Apoc Engine tends to have less than I'd prefer. It sits in a weird place for me, more codified than Fate but too light for that mechanical weight to have a ton of impact

I'm not a never say never to PbtA but it doesn't have that feeling of hype to me that I want for this game specifically. I'm looking for a fun adventure, and a big part of that is cool, high power, exciting fight scenes. I feel its hard to do that rules light. If I was, I'd shoot for something more like Panic at the Dojo. Still crunch but more approachable, y'know?

Take what I say with a grain of salt as I don't play PF/D&D anymore, and Exalted was just so convoluted to me that I couldn't be bothered (but what White Wolf system isn't, amiright?)

Why do you think a rules lite system has less hype than one that tells you specifically what you are allowed, and more importantly not allowed, to do? High powered, exciting fight scenes are all in the fiction. It's how you frame it. The more rules you are bound by, the less things you can actually do, in my experience.

Combat scenes ought to be fast and flow easily without a bunch of rules getting in the way, when on Play-by-Post. More rules = game slows down = people lose interest/post less often.

[Inquisitor D]

53 minutes ago, Malkavian Grin said:

Take what I say with a grain of salt as I don't play PF/D&D anymore, and Exalted was just so convoluted to me that I couldn't be bothered (but what White Wolf system isn't, amiright?)

Why do you think a rules lite system has less hype than one that tells you specifically what you are allowed, and more importantly not allowed, to do? High powered, exciting fight scenes are all in the fiction. It's how you frame it. The more rules you are bound by, the less things you can actually do, in my experience.

Combat scenes ought to be fast and flow easily without a bunch of rules getting in the way, when on Play-by-Post. More rules = game slows down = people lose interest/post less often.

No salt needed! This is a fun discussion point to me. ^^ I feel this is something people can talk about - lotta room for personal taste here. How we engage with stuff is good to unpack and analyse.

I'd like to narrow my point a, little. 'Rules lite' is more a convenient short hand than the root of my complaint IMO. There are rules lite systems that can bring hype. (and I agree about the need for clarity and flow in PbP) But a majority, including two of the biggest, don't for me.

The easiest example would probably be Fate. You can make an attack almost anything in Fate... But mechanically, it'll be the same roll, working the exact same way. You can modify an attack with a stunt or an aspect but that won't really change a ton about how it works.

You'll roll the same dice, in the same way. It can't really capture a feeling of desperation, and doesn't let you make a ton of choices. It's a thin layer of mechanics to guide free form writing. PbtA codifies things more, but the same basic feeling holds. You'll roll 2d6, add a small number, that's it

Contrasting that, I have two systems that I'd say are still rules lite but don't fall into this trap. The first is Mythender. It's not really a complex game either but there's a focus on getting you to roll a ton of dice.

...thats cool! I like rolling a ton of dice!

I'm not just joking around here. It makes things feel exviting and epic, like I'm escalating the situation. Even if the base mechanics are still simple, that feeling like you're going all out and putting everything on the line can provide a fun, exciting feeling that I don't see games like PbtA being able to replicate. The maths at the heart of their system just uses too small numbers for this to even be a possibility.

So, tactics then? Panic at the Dojo gives you so many things you can do with your characters. You put a few pieces together, you feel you've got a unique warrior with a distinctive fighting style. You'll be making choices even that early.

It's not like you can't have cool action or tactics in a rules light game, but they tend to be more a narrative thing than mechanical. And folks enjoy that! But for me... I don't. If the mechanics arent supporting tactics or stakes, it makes the narrative feel hollow.

Am I making sense? Or is this just rambling?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Inquisitor D (see edit history)

[Vladim]

3 hours ago, Peachyco said:

Ironsworn, or better yet, Ironsworn: Starforged reflavored for sea adventures (as opposed to space adventures). There are mechanics for exploration, and if you run out of ideas, the system has mechanics for generating ideas on the fly. ^_^

There's also a sea faring/age of sail supplement called "sundered isles" in the works. I think so far it's only available for Kickstarter backers but it should be near public release.

I like Ironsworn, obviously, and I think the system is flexible enough to support anything from grounded/gritty to over the top/fantastical. Though if you like rolling lots of dice and dislike Fate/PbtA, it might not be the best choice 🙂

[Inquisitor D]

1 minute ago, Vladim said:

There's also a sea faring/age of sail supplement called "sundered isles" in the works. I think so far it's only available for Kickstarter backers but it should be near public release.

I like Ironsworn, obviously, and I think the system is flexible enough to support anything from grounded/gritty to over the top/fantastical. Though if you like rolling lots of dice and dislike Fate/PbtA, it might not be the best choice 🙂

I'll check it out. I actually had a rules light system I was considering for this myself - Wildsea. I doubt if enough folk are familiar with it to get a game together on the Weave but if there were fans, I'd give it a try.

[Malkavian Grin]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor D said:

...thats cool! I like rolling a ton of dice!

I'm not just joking around here. It makes things feel exviting and epic, like I'm escalating the situation.

To each their own. As you say, it all comes down to personal taste. Rolling a ton of dice isn't any more or less exciting for me. A strong narrative, supported with solid mechanics is what I like. As such, FATE and PbtA games really vibe with me.

When it comes down to it, rolling a bunch vs. a little results in the same thing. You achieve a goal (or don't/have complications).

It sounds like you'd enjoy the Genesys system (the one underneath the Star Wars system from a few years back, as well as Twilight Imperium). You are often rolling 5-6 dice of various sizes (though some are almost always "bad" dice that serve as your difficulty).

As for a suggestion of system, you could always use the underlying rules for the Storytelling system; I recommend the God-Machine Chronicle which is without a setting and works well for mortals. Plus, big ass dice pools. (Edit, that was the wrong link. lol) (Edit #2: I can't find a reliable link to the rules. But it sounds like you want to go with Exalted anyways, so that'll work just fine)