OOC Chat

[8w_gremlin]

All good, thanks for letting me know.

[jkason]

Only just starting to read it, but heads up that Daggerheart just released beta v 1.3. Change log link: Change Log

 

I belive Demi-plane is also meant to update, but was going to read over the changes first before loading Demi-plane to see if the updates automatically applied to characters or not.

 

Edit: I'll try to take a closer look later, but I did give it a skim for relevant stuff to my character and to try and get an idea of the basic changes. What I found noteworthy in a general sense so far:

* They nixed the "below Minor = Stress" rule, but everyone's starting Minor threshhold dropped to 1, so the only people who really benefit from that change are I think Stalwart Guardians (who still have the text to "raise all threshholds," which I assume includes Minor).

* We get more Armor slots, but armor values dropped, as well (and Breastplate gained a penalty). I also noticed that innate abilities related to armor slots (Orcs and Ridgeborne were the ones I noticed) have been dropped.

* Looking at several ability updates, I suspect they must have gotten feedback about Hope accumulation. A bunch more abilities have become Hope sinks now, like Faerie's Luckbender.

* Advantage and disadvantage changed.

 

There's a bunch of other stuff confined to specific ancestries / classes / domains, but that looks like the bigger 'this will impact everyone' changes from what I'm seeing.

Edited April 9 by jkason
Some first pass reactions to updates. (see edit history)

[Neopopulas]

I saw the changes and noted that there were some important ones - like the armour and stuff - but not too much has changed, i sort of expect this to be fairly common though. I think the armour / hope stuff is the biggest things.

It was very smart to partner with demiplane though because - in theory - you just need to check demiplane again and your character should be updated.

The interesting thing is that i have a screenshot of the character sheet for Yhen, so i can compare the two sheets for differences. Makes things super easy actually.

Looking at it - at least the stuff i've been using - its mostly wording changes that don't actually change anything i can see, but might change interactions i'm unfamiliar with. For example. Book of Ava has Ice Spikes.

Old	New
Ice Spikes: Make a Spellcast Roll to summon large ice spikes within far range. You may also treat them as a ranged weapon against a target or group. On success they deal d6 damage	Ice Spikes: Make a Spellcast Roll to summon large ice spikes within very far range. If you use them as a weapon, on a success, deal d6 physical damage using your proficiency

'You may treat them as a ranged weapon' vs 'if you use them as a weapon' So in this instance i don't know what the difference is but there probably is some interaction i don't know about.

Mysterious Mist from Book of Tyfar just makes a point that it costs an action to spend a hope to cast the spell.

Others are a little weirder, not in a 'this change is weird' and more 'why bother' sort of way. Strange Patterns for example looks like this;

Choose a number between 1-12. Anytime you roll that number on a Duality Die, gain a hope or clear a stress. You may change this number on any long rest

And it is changed to this.

Choose a number between 1 and 12. Whenever you roll that number on a Duality die, gain a Hope or clear a Stress. You can change this number when you finish a long rest.

I haven't looked at all the races yet but i think the races got the most changes. For example Daemon had
"Fearless: When you roll with Fear you may choose to mark a stress instead of the GM gaining fear"
But it got changed to
"Fearless: When you roll with Fear, you can mark 2 stress to make it a roll with Hope instead"
which i actually think is better. Instead of being able to deny the GM actions, you're spending resources (stress) to make it an advantage for you.

I mean it doesn't matter but this kind of minutiae is the things i notice lol

Edit: I also just noticed that the Greatstaff has a range of 'Very Far' and i was under the impression this whole time that it was like, a bap bap staff but its actually a pew pew staff lol

[jkason]

I also missed that they apparently changed Fear economy such that a roll with Fear EITHER gives the GM. Move OR gives them a Fear. I think that only change action economy on Success with Fear, since fails turn the action over either way so there’s no reason to pass on a Fear token.
 

The new fly rules are slightly clearer but seem less in keeping with the design paradigm. When combat is free form, “one minute” is way more amorphous than in turn based play. They even admitted that on stream, basically saying you just sort of feel it out with the GM, which I’m pretty meh about.
 

I think I prefer the “until Fear” version for variability. It means among other things that you can spend a stress to flit around for extended periods during low stakes scenes where you probably don’t roll a lot, and then can lose it when more roll-heavy stuff starts. The time version makes it much more wasteful to, say, decide you want to fly up and look at the shiny chandelier for giggles. The only thing I didn’t like was that they didn’t say if “Stop flying” meant “start falling” or not.

[8w_gremlin]

Yeah, I'm going to go over that and re-read the rules a third time, as some of it seems odd, and I don't want to house rule a playtest (to much, besides Pbp stuff)

But if the players continue to have actions until someone rolls with Fear and the GM acts would be easy to implement in Pbp.

[Lex Samreeth]

Whelp. That's fear. How has Kurith stepped in it this time, oh mighty GM?

[8w_gremlin]

Kurith might not be stepping into things, but things might be stepping into you!

[Neopopulas]

Still trying to conceptualise the idea of the ranges in this game. I finally found somewhere that seems to explain it but its purposely vague. For example 'very far' is 100-300 feet away from the character, and 'melee' is within touching distance. BUT, you can move into melee from very close in your action. So if i hit this thing with Power Push i could knock them 100 (OR) 300 feet away..

I know that the idea is to make it narrative and cooperative but not knowing if a spell will throw something 100ft or 300ft feels weird.

[8w_gremlin]

Ranges

https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/daggerheart/rules (under range)

Melee: You are within touching distance of the target. As a PC, you can generally touch targets up to a few feet away from you, but Melee range may be greater for especially large NPCs.

Very Close: You’re very close to a target, allowing you to see its fine details—and to reach it within moments, if need be. This is generally about 5-10 feet away. While in danger, you can usually move into Melee with anything that’s Very Close as part of any other action you make. Anything on a battle map that is within the shortest length of a game card (~2-3 inches) can usually be considered Very Close.

Close You’re close enough to a target to see its prominent details, such as across a room or in a neighboring market stall. This is generally about 10-30 feet away. While in danger, you can generally move into Melee with anything that’s Close as part of any other action you make. Anything on a battle map that is within the length of a standard pen or pencil (~5-6 inches) can usually be considered Close.

Far You’re far enough away that you can see the appearance of a target, but probably not in detail, such as across a small battlefield or down a large corridor. This is generally about 30-100 feet away. While in danger, the GM will usually require you to make an Agility check if you want to safely move into Melee with something that's Far from you. Anything on a battle map that is within the length of a standard piece of paper (~11-12 inches) can usually be considered Far.

Very Far You’re very far away, and while you might be able to see the shape of a person or object, you probably can’t make out any details, such as across a large battlefield or down a long street. This is generally about 100-300 feet away. While in danger, the GM will usually require you to make an Agility check if you want to safely move into Melee with something that’s Very Far from you. Anything on a battle map that is beyond Far distance, but still within the bounds of the conflict can usually be considered Very Far.

Out of Range: Anything beyond your Very Far range is out of your range and usually can’t be targeted.

 

---

Optional Rule: Defined Ranges

If your table would rather operate with more precise range rules, you can use a 1-inch grid battle map during combat. If you do, use the following guides for play:

Melee: 1 square | Very Close: 3 squares | Close: 6 squares | Far: 12 squares | Very Far: 13+ squares

---

Moving

When you’re not in a dangerous, difficult, or time-sensitive situation, you don’t generally need to worry about how fast you move. However, the following rules apply when you’re under pressure (such as when you’re in danger or when the action tracker is in play).

Moving Close During Actions

If you’re doing something that requires an action roll, you can also freely move to a location within your 

Close range (including Very Close and Melee), before or after using that action. This location must be somewhere your character could easily reach within the story. If you want to move Far or Very Far, or if you want to reach an area that’s not easily accessible (such as one that requires climbing, swimming, or jumping), follow the rules below.

Moving Far or Without an Action

If you’re not already making an action roll, or if you want to move farther than your Close range, you’ll typically need to succeed on an 

Agility

 roll to safely reposition yourself. The GM sets this difficulty depending on the situation. On a failure, you might only be able to move some of that distance, the adversaries might act before you can make it, or something might prevent you from moving at all. If there is no risk or potential complication in moving a certain distance, no roll is required.

[8w_gremlin]

Note: I can set up a battle map if people prefer that.

[Neopopulas]

Maybe a battle map would help to give an idea of the ranges, but not if its just for me, i'll figure it out!

Edit: Followup question. I've been looking over hope and fear tokens and it seems like you can aid allies with a hope token.. basically for free. And doing so gives your ally +1d6 (i think) to their action, attack, etc.. It doesn't seem like you can do it for YOURSELF but.. is there any reason to not be doing that pretty often?

[Dixi]

Would love the map! I am terrible with the theatre of mind. Even if distance does not matter some directions always help.

[jkason]

4 hours ago, Neopopulas said:

Maybe a battle map would help to give an idea of the ranges, but not if its just for me, i'll figure it out!

Edit: Followup question. I've been looking over hope and fear tokens and it seems like you can aid allies with a hope token.. basically for free. And doing so gives your ally +1d6 (i think) to their action, attack, etc.. It doesn't seem like you can do it for YOURSELF but.. is there any reason to not be doing that pretty often?

 

They changed help so now you roll your Hope die, Then the person you’re helping can choose between theirs and yours (let’s them choose a lower roll if it matches to make a crit). From what I’ve been reading others post, apparently “the math” assumes you’ll be trying to do help semi-regularly. I think it depends on (1) how well you can come up with narrative ways you’re helping and (2) you need Hope for other abilities. Spamming help may be why they added more Hope sinks to abilities, but I’m not sure.

[Neopopulas]

Its early but i haven't seen a lot of things that need hope so we'll have to see

 

[8w_gremlin]

Does anyone have a preference for the map tool?
Do you know of any good ones?

Seeking advice and guidance.

I'd like to use this image, but as a map, with tokens for You lot and the Thistlefolk.