Baldr Private Posts - differences from OGMW

[Eric]

Since I know this topic is going to come up, I'm writing to explain the thinking behind the how and why of the differences between Baldr private posts and OGMW private tags. 

 

OGMW private tags were developed on the design philosophy that everything about a post should be contained in the post's BBcode contents. This had the advantage that no user interfaces needed to be built; users could take advantage of the new feature simply by inputting the correct tags into the post editor. As long as you spelled the recipient user names correctly, this worked fairly well on the front end as any arbitrary portion(s) of a post could be hidden from other users as desired. The main negatives are (1) If the entirety of the content becomes hidden by one or more private tags, other users still see an ostensibly empty post block; (2) posts with private content could not be cached and had to be reparsed every time they were displayed, increasing processing time (read: cost) for MW operations; posts with private content had to go through multiple layers of coding shenanigans to make sure that content wasn't seen in an email notification, mention, quote, search result, or any other format in which the post might be rendered.

 

For Baldr, we've purposefully taken the approach of privacy at the whole post level. This solves all three of the issues of OGMW private tags, since if the view permission is blocked for the entire post, then it never shows up in any page (rendered or cached), never triggers a new visible content rule for notifications, and isn't available from search. It also means any dice attached to the post have the same privacy as the post itself. It does, however, require a new post to be created for each private element that would have been included within a single post for OGMW, which is a slight increase in overhead for the GM.

 

I'm sensitive to the fact that changing "how it's been done for years" will always create some consternation. In this case, I think the technical benefits are substantial enough that it's the right think to do for the site.

 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[SirLoganofGilead]

As a note.  We did talk through some of the pros and cons of this on Discord.  I don't see much downside.  Worst case if you had a private message that you would have put into a larger post on OGMW you now make your post, and then post the private stuff.  I actually think it takes the idea of private and makes it MORE secretive.  You could always tell when there was private text in a post before because it was somewhat out of whack with spacing.  Also the gain in the way private threads work, I think is much better as well.  On OGMW if someone posted in a private thread you received an unread status.  Not anymore!

[Mindcrime]

I use OGMW private tags quite extensively, for instance, with combat.  On OGMW, I create a combat template where I use private tags to help keep track of relevant information both for the PC's as well as their opponents.  Keeping it all within a single post is very useful and helpful.  Would I love to see that continue on Baldr, absolutely.  But, if it has to go, then I'll just have to figure out another method.  If you are interested in seeing what I'm talking about, here's a link (of course you'll have to be a mod in order to see it).

[Gralhruk]

I don't see a problem personally, but I've always been more of the mind that you don't need private text in a public thread - either you trust everyone not to metagame it, or you can send a PM if you don't.  Private threads, on the other hand, I like a lot and I think that if there needs to be private communication between a player and GM that you don't want to lose track of that is where it should be done.

 

My one real question is on the "Show for" and "Hide from".  If I am reading the dev notes correctly, once you enter values in "Show for" then "Hide from" is ignored.  Would you want to disable "Hide from" if there is any value in "Show for"?

[Inash]

2 hours ago, Gralhruk said:

I don't see a problem personally, but I've always been more of the mind that you don't need private text in a public thread - either you trust everyone not to metagame it, or you can send a PM if you don't.  Private threads, on the other hand, I like a lot and I think that if there needs to be private communication between a player and GM that you don't want to lose track of that is where it should be done.

 

My one real question is on the "Show for" and "Hide from".  If I am reading the dev notes correctly, once you enter values in "Show for" then "Hide from" is ignored.  Would you want to disable "Hide from" if there is any value in "Show for"?

If I'm following that right, "Show for" is basically show only for, meaning hide from is automatically anyone not in "Show for", so having entries in both would be redundant?

[Eric]

1 hour ago, Inash said:

If I'm following that right, "Show for" is basically show only for, meaning hide from is automatically anyone not in "Show for", so having entries in both would be redundant?

Correct. They're analogous to PRIVATE and PRIVATEFROM tags on OGMW, and really only one or the other applies. PRIVATEFROM would have uses in, say, showing information for the readers without the players being able to see it.

[Gralhruk]

Yeah, I was more saying it probably makes sense to systemically disable "Hide From" if you enter any value in "Show For".

[TheDragonOfFlame]

If you “hide from” specific people, and they log out, can they see it? Could be awkward there…

[Colin]

54 minutes ago, TheDragonOfFlame said:

If you “hide from” specific people, and they log out, can they see it? Could be awkward there…

 

If the game is visible to the public, then yes it's possible to see such posts.

[Eric]

This one is probably a gap that can be closed.

[Eric]

Closed since private posts are not a thing right now, and private text has been added.