OOC/Brainstorm BlackFinch's Game

[PixCO]

50 minutes ago, BobtheWizard said:

Oops. You are right. One or the other.

I don't know anything about the errata or Mearle's opinions. I think CBE should have said

• When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding in your other hand

I think the intent was for the hand crossbow to be a secondary weapon, but without the qualifiers it just turns it into a fast shooter requiring two hands.

Mike Mearls said the same thing. It's meant to represent someone with a loaded crossbow in their off-hand getting a free shot in. Jeremy Crawford overruled and so it's his take in the Sage Advice Compendium.

Which also answers my question on that second item interaction to load. Ammo draws are considered part of the attack, unlike pulling a melee weapon. So even if Dread Ambush requires a third bolt to be fired, it's allowed by RAW, it would seem. Neat, but converting Crossbow Expert into Throwing Expert still makes more sense to me. Not Thrown Arms Master, but something like:

• All thrown weapons may be considered Finesse Weapons
• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your thrown attack rolls
• You may apply your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack when using Two-Weapon Fighting if the bonus attack is made with a thrown weapon

Thrown Weapon Fighting already grants +2 damage to all thrown attacks. Throwing Expert with darts would provide 1d4+5 twice a turn and still play well with Hunter's Mark, Foe Slayer, and Dread Ambush. Damage range is 6-9 per hit, with the hand crossbow ranging 5-10. 4-9 without the +1 enchantment. It's an extra 3 1/2 pounds per 20 rounds of ammo, but that shouldn't matter much. Speaking of which...

 

Three bolts per round would exhaust her ammo case pretty quickly. @SMARTAgentKC -- Since I've established that Yopine's father was an accomplished Artificer in hiding, now blackmailed into working for her brother, would it be possible to say he layered a Repeating Shot Infusion into the hand crossbow that he was planning as a surprise? It could be found when she picks up CBE, and I'll have to read up on Attunement to see how that works.

It's a 2nd Level ability in terms of Artificing, but I'm not sure how rare it would be in a magic item held by a 4th level Gloom Stalker.

I'm also very tempted to request a simulation where she can try that home brewed Throwing Expert/Thrown Weapon Fighting style. Would you be open to that?

Edited December 3, 2023 by PixCO
With Darts (see edit history)

[SMARTAgentKC]

hmm... if going by RAW as long as her Dad ain't dead, the infusions last indefinitely, however there's a bunch of statements that include that once an item is infused with a certain infusion, he can't use it for another weapon, and if he tries to infuse other items more than what he's already infused (which depending on his level can vary. The oldest item loses it's infusion.

Quite frankly, I don't see an artificer who being forced to work for a guild being able to keep one infusion always on and since it requires attunement, I would likely rule that the artificer has to be within a certain distance for that infusion to stay on the weapon itself. I would argue the infusion is a part of his class and creative magic, just like a pact of the blade weapon is connected to the warlock and if the weapon is out of the persons hands for more than a minute, the weapon vanishes only to be able to be summoned to the wielder of the magic itself, (like how a keyblade in kingdom hearts always returns to their wielder with just a thought)

Now could he have built a prototype repeating hand crossbow that functions like it was a crossbow with the repeating shot infusion active on it and stashed it for Yopine to later find and use, sure, would it be fair for her to have it on hand. Meh... there's not an official magic item that has that feature on it and if it did, it would most likely be a very rare type item and completely broken when it comes to combat as it ignores both the ammunition and loading properties of the weapon.

~~~

As for trying out that customized feat, we can open a small side thread in this simulation to run a target range to have you try it out that way we can just keep playing the story without having to bother with messing with your main character.

[PixCO]

45 minutes ago, SMARTAgentKC said:

hmm... if going by RAW as long as her Dad ain't dead, the infusions last indefinitely, however there's a bunch of statements that include that once an item is infused with a certain infusion, he can't use it for another weapon, and if he tries to infuse other items more than what he's already infused (which depending on his level can vary. The oldest item loses it's infusion.

Quite frankly, I don't see an artificer who being forced to work for a guild being able to keep one infusion always on and since it requires attunement, I would likely rule that the artificer has to be within a certain distance for that infusion to stay on the weapon itself. I would argue the infusion is a part of his class and creative magic, just like a pact of the blade weapon is connected to the warlock and if the weapon is out of the persons hands for more than a minute, the weapon vanishes only to be able to be summoned to the wielder of the magic itself, (like how a keyblade in kingdom hearts always returns to their wielder with just a thought)

Now could he have built a prototype repeating hand crossbow that functions like it was a crossbow with the repeating shot infusion active on it and stashed it for Yopine to later find and use, sure, would it be fair for her to have it on hand. Meh... there's not an official magic item that has that feature on it and if it did, it would most likely be a very rare type item and completely broken when it comes to combat as it ignores both the ammunition and loading properties of the weapon.

~~~

As for trying out that customized feat, we can open a small side thread in this simulation to run a target range to have you try it out that way we can just keep playing the story without having to bother with messing with your main character.

Thank you. The limited aspect of the Infusions is what drew me to them. As long as it's working, Yopine knows that her dad's okay. It's trouble if it ever stops. Plus he has to hide the fact that he's holding back an infusion, putting him in danger to support Yopine.

 

I would like to open a side-thread if you have time, thank you again. Thropine would probably not have been given the hand crossbow. A Cloak of Protection would be more likely. There's an emotional value to that which isn't carried by the crossbow since she can't wrap herself in that. A hidden Infusion like Armor of Tools could be more appropriate as well. That seems to only have a one-time use, though.

EDIT: Which of course wouldn't matter if the infused cloak automatically returned to the creator. Right.

Edited December 4, 2023 by PixCO (see edit history)

[PixCO]

1 hour ago, SMARTAgentKC said:

Quite frankly, I don't see an artificer who being forced to work for a guild...

Again, sorry for the double-post. Their father is working directly for Joe, with their younger sister being held as insurance. Yopine doesn't know that yet.

Joe came back from the resurrection ceremony with a Fae goddess of death on his shoulder. She has him on a mission to turn the Guild into a house of death, with the support of one of her paladins. Poison and disease will be heavily used, so he's hired an Alchemist.

The plan had been to privately use their father to give the paladin advantages. Doesn't sound like that's entirely viable if Artificing isn't a sell-able service. Dangit.

[SMARTAgentKC]

At level 10 the feature magic item adapt allows him to craft common and uncommon items at a quarter of the time needed and at half the gold cost. So maybe then it becomes a feasible sellable service

[PixCO]

5 hours ago, SMARTAgentKC said:

At level 10 the feature magic item adapt allows him to craft common and uncommon items at a quarter of the time needed and at half the gold cost. So maybe then it becomes a feasible sellable service

Something along those lines would work, yes. I currently know who he is; a moderately successful craftsman who used to make traps and other deadly items for a living. Figuring out what he is can come later.

[PixCO]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:31 PM, SMARTAgentKC said:

At level 10 the feature magic item adapt allows him to craft common and uncommon items at a quarter of the time needed and at half the gold cost. So maybe then it becomes a feasible sellable service

Reading further into Infusions. I think the mechanics would work as long as a time/distance limitation isn't imposed. It'd actually deepen his character significantly knowing that he's hiding at least one Infusion from his son in order to support Yopine. At some point it'll stop working. She won't know if it's because he's dead, he re-used or dropped the Infusion, or if it just wore off eventually.

For the Bowpine build, it would be Repeating Shot. He added it as a surprise for her 33rd birthday and never got the chance to tell her. The constant Weapons Practice she's been doing for CBE fulfills the Attunement requirement. It's the only thing she has left of her father, so it's easy to see her accidentally discovering it while holding it and thinking of him as she rests.

I can't argue against a narrative that solid even though it means the hand crossbow is not currently a +1 weapon. Fortunately she hasn't used it yet so that's easily retconned. It's also RAW if you handwave the implied limitation of Infused items needing to stay with their creator.

 

The Throwpine build would be similar. Replicate Magic Item sets him as at least 10th level for the Cloak of Protection. No surprise Infusions there. It's just a Replicated Cloak of Protection that she's already Attuned. It'll stop working the same way as Repeating Shot would for the crossbow.

While I do really like the Throwing Expert feat and would like to try it out sometime, there's already too much headcanon going on with the hand crossbow. She wouldn't let me rebuild her now even if I had the chance. Her brother's an NPC villain that I'm already building around poison. It's a better fit for him anyway.

[BobtheWizard]

I'm sorry, but I need to bow out of this game. In the two weeks since the last post, I've added a few other games and won't be able to keep up with this one. Good luck and hope to see you both in other games in the future.

[PixCO]

30 minutes ago, BobtheWizard said:

I'm sorry, but I need to bow out of this game. In the two weeks since the last post, I've added a few other games and won't be able to keep up with this one. Good luck and hope to see you both in other games in the future.

Understandable. Same goes for you, I had fun here even with my clumsy start. Hope to game with you again.

@SMARTAgentKC - if you want to close this simulation and restore some of your personal bandwidth, that would be okay with me.

[SMARTAgentKC]

unfortunately that is going to have to be the case...

Jin: man and I was having fun too welp back to the archives for another day everyone