HERO system discovery

[RedMax]

2 hours ago, cailano said:

RedMax, have you looked at the Champions Complete rules referenced above? What did you think?

Champions Complete is nice. I have it. I still prefer 5th Edition Revised, but I recently ran a game with Champions Complete (6th Edition). There's nothing wrong with Champions Complete--if 5e Revised didn't exist, I'd probably be using that instead!

I read the idea above of keeping all character Speeds the same for a PbP. That is not a bad idea. However, I do run 5e and 6e Hero/Champions in PbP and in email and I always have characters of differing Speeds. It comes down to GM organization and in scaffolding the posts so everyone knows where we are in the combat. I always bold the Phase we are in, and I always prompt whose go it is etc.

The thing I love about Champions/Hero is that you can zoom in and zoom out of crunch. What I mean is, I often have twenty posts in a row where we are just role-playing, sometimes with an occasional roll thrown in, sometimes not. But when combat comes, we start out in Phase 12 and everyone declares etc. If it looks like the combat is going to go on longer than a few traded blows, I haul out a hexmap and we go into the rpg equivalent of Bullet Time. It's fun. The players I have gathered all dig the role-playing, but they also dig the Bullet Time. A good GM can sense when the Bullet Time has gone on too long and can adjust accordingly. I've been in many games where the combat gets so detailed that a battle of a team of superheroes vs baddies goes on for months. THIS IS TOO LONG. I do not like that style. But, if it's a combat situation involving say 5 characters vs. 5 NPCs, I usually resolve it within a week to ten days.

Anyway, enough for now. : ) I think you can tell I love the Hero System and hopefully you can sense that I have had a lot of experience in pbem and PbP using Hero. In my opinion, the Hero System is the perfect system, and Hero 5e Revised is the pinnacle of what Hero was trying to accomplish. :)

 

[RedMax]

PS: For newcomers, I always recommend the same thing.

1. Get a copy of the pdf for Hero System 5th Edition Revised, but do not read it (seriously).

2. Go to https://surbrook.devermore.net/index/archive.html

It is a repository of many, many characters that have been built in the 5e rules. You'll find Spike from Cowboy Bebop greeting you on the main page, and you can find many character write-ups, from Spider-Man to Starfire to the aliens from Alien.

3. Choose a character from the Surbrook site and use it as your tour guide as you read the rules. Choose a character that you know well, like, you know Spider-Man well enough to know he can lift around 10 tons and has a strong Science ability and a high skill in Photography.

I recommend for first-timers: instead of building a new character from scratch, pick your favorite character and just do a subtle alteration. Take the write-up for Spider-Man and take away his webs and give him claws instead (refer to the Wolverine write-up for help, then consult the rules).

Edited October 26, 2023 by RedMax (see edit history)

[cailano]

Great link to the HERO write-ups for different characters. Just so people know, this is the level of crunch we're talking about (from the Wolverine write up)

 

Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes
30	STR	20	15-	Lift 1600 kg; 6d6 HTH Damage [3]
25	DEX	30	14-
30	CON	20	15-
13	INT	3	12-	PER Roll 12-
10	EGO	0	11-
35	PRE	15	16-	PRE Attack:  7d6

10	OCV	35	
10	DCV	35	
3	OMCV	0	
5	DMCV	6	
6	SPD	40		Phases:  2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

26	PD	18		Total:  26 PD (6 rPD)
26	ED	18		Total:  26 ED (6 rED)
20	REC	16
60	END	8
20	BODY	10
60	STUN	20		Total Characteristics Cost: 297

Movement:	Running:  16m/32m 
		Leaping:  6m/12m

Cost	Powers & Skills
3	Snikt!:  +10 PRE (Unsheathing Claws); Only to Intimidate (-2), Nonpersistent (-¼)	
	 	
21	Adamantium Claws:  Multipower, 31-point reserve, all slots Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF 
	Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼)	
2f	1)  Piercing Stab:  HKA 1d6+1 (2 ½d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (x2; +½); Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), 
	IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	2)  Heavy Slash:  HKA 1 ½d6 (3d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+¼); Reduced Penetration (-¼), Unified 
	Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	3)  Quick Slash:  HKA 2d6 (4d6 w/STR); Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	4)  Retracted Punch:  HA +6d6; Hand-To-Hand Attack (-¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF 
	Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
	 	
	Adamantium Skeleton, all slots Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	
8	1)  Enhanced Climbing:  +4 with Climbing; Costs Endurance (-½), Gestures (-¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼) 
	plus Clinging (40 STR); Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-½), Perceivable (-½), 
	Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Must be able to penetrate material with claws (-¼), Costs Endurance 
	(Only Costs END to Activate; -¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), END 2
7	2)  Impact Resistance I:  Resistant Protection (6 PD), Hardened (x2; +½); Only Works Against Blunt 
	Trauma (-½), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	0
10	3)  Impact Resistance II:  +18 PD; Only Works Against Blunt Trauma (-½), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	
8	4)  Impact Resistance III:  Knockback Resistance -10m; Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)
	 	
8	Defensive Maneuvers:  +4 DCV; Only to Offset DCV Penalties From Surprise or Multiple Attackers (-1 ½)	
72	Mutant Physiology:  Regeneration (3 BODY per Turn), All Physical Characteristics (+½)
13	Mutant Physiology II:  Regeneration (2 BODY per Day), Can Heal Limbs
7	Mutant Physiology III:  LS  (Extended Breathing: 1 END per Turn; Longevity: 200 Years; Safe in 
	High Pressure; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum)
5	Memory Loss:  Mental Defense (5 points total)
5	Mutant Resistance I:  Resistant Protection (6 ED); Only Works Against Uncommon attack (Energy 
	Attacks that Don't Cause Physical Trauma; -¾)
	 	
12	X-Men Uniform:  Resistant Protection (6 PD/6 ED); OIF (-½)
13	X-Men Communicator:  HRRP (Radio Group); Private Channels Only (-½), IIF (-¼) plus +6 with 
	Cryptography; Encrypted Transmission (-1)

	Perks
10	X-Men:  Contact:  Charles Xavier (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has 
	very useful Skills or resources, Very Good relationship with Contact) 14-

	Talents
3	Strong Willed:  Resistance (+3 to roll)

	Skills
24	Fearsome Fighter:  +3 with HTH Combat
6	Resolute:  +3 with EGO Roll

5	AK: Pacific Northwest 14-
3	Breakfall 14-
3	Climbing 14-
3	Combat Driving 14-
0	Language:  English (idiomatic)
7	Mechanics 14-
2	PS: Logger 11-
3	Riding (Motorcycles) 14-
7	Stealth 16-
7	Survival 14-
3	Tactics 12-
3	Teamwork 14-
7	Tracking 14-

Total Powers & Skill Cost:  303
Total Cost:  600

400+	Matching Complications
15	Enraged:  Rogue or Jean Grey in Trouble (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 14-
15	Enraged:  When Losing a Fight (Common), go 11-, recover 14-
5	Hunted:  Mutant Registration Act Infrequently (Less Pow; NCI; Mildly Punish)
15	Hunted:  X-Men Rogues Gallery Infrequently (As Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)
5	Negative Reputation:  Dangerous Mutant, Infrequently (Extreme;  Mutant Haters Only)
5	Physical Complication:  Adamantium/Ferrous Skeleton (Infrequently; Barely Impairing)
5	Physical Complication:  Memory Loss (Infrequently; Barely Impairing)
10	Rivalry:  Romantic (with Cyclops for Jean Grey; Rival is As Powerful; Rival is a Player Character; 
	Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)
5	Social Complication:  Secret ID: James Howlett  Infrequently, Minor
200	Experience Points

Total Complications Points:  450

 

[leons1701]

That's a writeup for a fairly straightforward version of Wolverine. They left out his enhanced senses and I've definitely seen writeups that gave him enhanced abilities when berserk (some writers have definitely increased his abilities when he cuts loose with the rage). Imagine the writeup for something like Doctor Strange or Iron Man. Or Batman.

[Papa Bear]

I was planning to quote and respond to a bunch of things but, well, I'm lazy and overwhelmed :D

@RedMax, I'd love to play in a 5e game you run to see how you run it with the full use of the Speed Attribute. Its probably too much cool for me to do with my lazy self, but I'd love to see it in practice. Also, I'm with you on 5eR. My favorite too. I do really like Complete because its pretty simplified and probably doesn't intimidate new players the way the loud thud of dropping the 5e or 6e book(s) on the table would. I like the figured characteristics. I was disappointed in 6e for that, but I understand how they were trying to make things a little easier, math-wise. My thing is, the figured characteristics math is nothing compared to the math for calculating powers with Advantages and Disadvantages... but then, that is the crux of the system, changing that too much would make it practically a different game. It's be M&M then. I like M&M, but it ain't Champions. (of course, part of my trouble with M&M is that I've been playing Champions for nearly 20+ years when M&M came out that it just seemed like a weak version of Champions).

BTW, that 80s version of Champions was 4th edition.

this one, right? I have a really beat up hard cover of it, a pretty good shape hard cover, and a soft cover. Part of why I don't love this version the best is because 5e really was just this version with a few tweaks and better write-ups/explanations for the powers.

Yes, the math on Advantages and Limitations can be daunting, but once you get it, its pretty easy to do (unless you have to do it with a pencil and paper!) The coolest thing about Champions (the HERO system, but Champions in particular) is that the more time and effort you put into building that character and fleshing out those power modifiers (and building your character properly with the disadvantages, not just power gaming squeezing out as many points as you can justify) the better and more dynamic your character gets.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Papa Bear (see edit history)

[RedMax]

1 hour ago, Papa Bear said:

I was planning to quote and respond to a bunch of things but, well, I'm lazy and overwhelmed :D

@RedMax, I'd love to play in a 5e game you run to see how you run it with the full use of the Speed Attribute. Its probably too much cool for me to do with my lazy self, but I'd love to see it in practice. Also, I'm with you on 5eR. My favorite too. I do really like Complete because its pretty simplified and probably doesn't intimidate new players the way the loud thud of dropping the 5e or 6e book(s) on the table would. I like the figured characteristics. I was disappointed in 6e for that, but I understand how they were trying to make things a little easier, math-wise. My thing is, the figured characteristics math is nothing compared to the math for calculating powers with Advantages and Disadvantages... but then, that is the crux of the system, changing that too much would make it practically a different game. It's be M&M then. I like M&M, but it ain't Champions. (of course, part of my trouble with M&M is that I've been playing Champions for nearly 20+ years when M&M came out that it just seemed like a weak version of Champions).

BTW, that 80s version of Champions was 4th edition.

this one, right? I have a really beat up hard cover of it, a pretty good shape hard cover, and a soft cover. Part of why I don't love this version the best is because 5e really was just this version with a few tweaks and better write-ups/explanations for the powers.

Yes, the math on Advantages and Limitations can be daunting, but once you get it, its pretty easy to do (unless you have to do it with a pencil and paper!) The coolest thing about Champions (the HERO system, but Champions in particular) is that the more time and effort you put into building that character and fleshing out those power modifiers (and building your character properly with the disadvantages, not just power gaming squeezing out as many points as you can justify) the better and more dynamic your character gets.

I'm quoting Papa Bear's entire post because it is worth reading twice! :D

As I was reading his post I was marveling at how this is exactly how I feel! I love the 4e book (the Perez cover shown above). It was--at the time--the best version of the Hero rules. I spent about a thousand hours gaming with that ruleset...but I 100% agree that 5e Revised improved upon it. I agree that 6e (the two big books and then the revised Champions Complete) was a slight misstep, but that Champions Complete is still pretty good....just not as good as Hero 5e Revised.

So, if you know the 4e rules well, you'll find 5e Revised is pretty close, just a little bit better and more clearly written. And if you learned Hero combat in the 4e book, you'll find that the combat plays virtually identically in 5e as compared to what you did in 4e.

[Papa Bear]

Yes, they perfected the system way back in the mid 80s and all they needed to do was make a few tweaks. But after 5eR, there wasn't anything else to do... so they HAD to change something to sell books again. So, along came 6e

Edited October 27, 2023 by Papa Bear (see edit history)

[RedMax]

5 hours ago, cailano said:

Great link to the HERO write-ups for different characters. Just so people know, this is the level of crunch we're talking about (from the Wolverine write up)

 

Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes
30	STR	20	15-	Lift 1600 kg; 6d6 HTH Damage [3]
25	DEX	30	14-
30	CON	20	15-
13	INT	3	12-	PER Roll 12-
10	EGO	0	11-
35	PRE	15	16-	PRE Attack:  7d6

10	OCV	35	
10	DCV	35	
3	OMCV	0	
5	DMCV	6	
6	SPD	40		Phases:  2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

26	PD	18		Total:  26 PD (6 rPD)
26	ED	18		Total:  26 ED (6 rED)
20	REC	16
60	END	8
20	BODY	10
60	STUN	20		Total Characteristics Cost: 297

Movement:	Running:  16m/32m 
		Leaping:  6m/12m

Cost	Powers & Skills
3	Snikt!:  +10 PRE (Unsheathing Claws); Only to Intimidate (-2), Nonpersistent (-¼)	
	 	
21	Adamantium Claws:  Multipower, 31-point reserve, all slots Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF 
	Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼)	
2f	1)  Piercing Stab:  HKA 1d6+1 (2 ½d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (x2; +½); Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), 
	IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	2)  Heavy Slash:  HKA 1 ½d6 (3d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+¼); Reduced Penetration (-¼), Unified 
	Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	3)  Quick Slash:  HKA 2d6 (4d6 w/STR); Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
2f	4)  Retracted Punch:  HA +6d6; Hand-To-Hand Attack (-¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), IIF 
	Unbreakable (Retractable; -¼), END 3
	 	
	Adamantium Skeleton, all slots Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	
8	1)  Enhanced Climbing:  +4 with Climbing; Costs Endurance (-½), Gestures (-¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼) 
	plus Clinging (40 STR); Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (-½), Perceivable (-½), 
	Extra Time (Full Phase, -½), Must be able to penetrate material with claws (-¼), Costs Endurance 
	(Only Costs END to Activate; -¼), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼), END 2
7	2)  Impact Resistance I:  Resistant Protection (6 PD), Hardened (x2; +½); Only Works Against Blunt 
	Trauma (-½), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	0
10	3)  Impact Resistance II:  +18 PD; Only Works Against Blunt Trauma (-½), Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)	
8	4)  Impact Resistance III:  Knockback Resistance -10m; Unified Power (Adamantium; -¼)
	 	
8	Defensive Maneuvers:  +4 DCV; Only to Offset DCV Penalties From Surprise or Multiple Attackers (-1 ½)	
72	Mutant Physiology:  Regeneration (3 BODY per Turn), All Physical Characteristics (+½)
13	Mutant Physiology II:  Regeneration (2 BODY per Day), Can Heal Limbs
7	Mutant Physiology III:  LS  (Extended Breathing: 1 END per Turn; Longevity: 200 Years; Safe in 
	High Pressure; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum)
5	Memory Loss:  Mental Defense (5 points total)
5	Mutant Resistance I:  Resistant Protection (6 ED); Only Works Against Uncommon attack (Energy 
	Attacks that Don't Cause Physical Trauma; -¾)
	 	
12	X-Men Uniform:  Resistant Protection (6 PD/6 ED); OIF (-½)
13	X-Men Communicator:  HRRP (Radio Group); Private Channels Only (-½), IIF (-¼) plus +6 with 
	Cryptography; Encrypted Transmission (-1)

	Perks
10	X-Men:  Contact:  Charles Xavier (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has 
	very useful Skills or resources, Very Good relationship with Contact) 14-

	Talents
3	Strong Willed:  Resistance (+3 to roll)

	Skills
24	Fearsome Fighter:  +3 with HTH Combat
6	Resolute:  +3 with EGO Roll

5	AK: Pacific Northwest 14-
3	Breakfall 14-
3	Climbing 14-
3	Combat Driving 14-
0	Language:  English (idiomatic)
7	Mechanics 14-
2	PS: Logger 11-
3	Riding (Motorcycles) 14-
7	Stealth 16-
7	Survival 14-
3	Tactics 12-
3	Teamwork 14-
7	Tracking 14-

Total Powers & Skill Cost:  303
Total Cost:  600

400+	Matching Complications
15	Enraged:  Rogue or Jean Grey in Trouble (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 14-
15	Enraged:  When Losing a Fight (Common), go 11-, recover 14-
5	Hunted:  Mutant Registration Act Infrequently (Less Pow; NCI; Mildly Punish)
15	Hunted:  X-Men Rogues Gallery Infrequently (As Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)
5	Negative Reputation:  Dangerous Mutant, Infrequently (Extreme;  Mutant Haters Only)
5	Physical Complication:  Adamantium/Ferrous Skeleton (Infrequently; Barely Impairing)
5	Physical Complication:  Memory Loss (Infrequently; Barely Impairing)
10	Rivalry:  Romantic (with Cyclops for Jean Grey; Rival is As Powerful; Rival is a Player Character; 
	Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)
5	Social Complication:  Secret ID: James Howlett  Infrequently, Minor
200	Experience Points

Total Complications Points:  450

 

Ironically, I'm going to shoot down this version of Wolverine (ironic because I suggested the site and it's usually pretty good!).

I was triggered by Wolvie's Strength stat and some other stuff, including @leons1701 spot-on comment about lack of Enhanced Senses.

So here's a better version I found on the herogames.com forums. Note that I'm not sure what "Qrk" means...it may be a house rule where you can stack on quirks for a low point return...? Maybe someone can clarify. I'm really good at Hero but Qrk is a new one for me. :)

 

WOLVERINE

 

Val: Char: Cost

20 STR 10

20 DEX 30

30 CON 40

20 BODY 20

13 INT 3

13 EGO 6

18 PRE 8

10 COM 0

20 PD 16

20 ED 14

4 SPD 10

15 REC 10

60 END 0

50 STN 5

Total Cost = 170

 

 

Super Powers

30 Adamantium Claws Multipower (A: 45); Restrainable (-1/4), Does no Knockback (-1/4)

3u. #1) Swipe HKA 2D6; 0 END (+1/2) [4DK w/ Str and M.Strk] 0

3u. #2) Slice HKA 2D6; Armor Piercing (+1/2) [3 ½ DK w/ MS] 4

3u. #3) Stab HKA 2D6; Penetrating (+1/2) [3 ½ DK w/ MS] 4

3u. #4) Slash HKA 3D6 [5DK+1 w/ STR and Martial Strike] 4

7 Adamantium Skeleton Armor +10 PD/ +10 ED;

Only vs. Body (-1), Only to prevent broken bones (-2)

6 Heightened Senses +2 to all Perception

14 Heightened Smell +2 to Smell Perception; Discriminatory And Tracking Scent

11 Healing Factor Regenerate 1 BODY/ turn; regrow limbs Healing 1D6, Regrow limbs; Persistent (+1), Self Only (-1/2) Extra Time: one turn (-1¼)

10 Instant Healing Damage Resistance 10 PD/ 10 ED

34 Recuperative Physiology Life Support verses Extreme Heat/Cold, High Radiation, High/Low Pressure, Extended Breathing (1 END/ 5 minutes), Longevity (400 years), Immunity to All Poisons/Toxins and All Disease/Bio-Warfare

Martial Arts (Unique form)

4 Marital Strike +0, +2, 10D6 (+3 DC to KA)

4 Charge +0, -2, 10D6 +v/5, Full move (+3 DC to KA)

4 Martial Escape +0, +0, 55 STR to escape grab

16 +4 DC w/ Martial Art

1 Use Martial Art w/ CLAWS

 

Skill/ Talent/ Perqs

4 +2 OCV w/ Martial Strike

 

2 WF: Common Melee

2 WF: Common Missile

2 WF: Common Martial Art Weapons

2 WF: Small Arms

3 Stealth 13-

3 Climbing 13-

6 Survival (Arctic, Mountain, Temperet) 12-

5 Concealment 13-

3 Streetwise 13-

3 Interrogation 13-

 

 

Disadvantages

Dis Fea: Detects as a Mutant -10

Soc Lom: Mutant minority -10

Phys Lim: Heavy Metal Skeleton (Inf, Slgt) -5

Psy Lim: Code of Honor and Justice (Stng) -20

Psy Lim: Overconfidence (VCom,Mod) -15

Psy Lim: Code vs. Killing (Un Com, Mod) -5

Enraged when BODY halved (Un Com, 11-, 11-) -15

Hunted by Black Ops Military Org. (More, NCI, 8-) -20

Qrk: Cannot remember own past -1

Qrk: Hates/picks on bullies -1

Qrk: Smokes Cigars constantly -1

Qrk: Sucker for Red-headed girls -1

Qrk: Prefers beer over any other liquid (including water) -1

 

Character Total = 355 points

Edited October 27, 2023 by RedMax (see edit history)

[RedMax]

6 minutes ago, Papa Bear said:

Yes, they perfected the system way back in the mid 80s and all they needed to do was make a few tweaks. But after 5eR, there wasn't anything else to do... so they HAD to change something to sell books again. So, along came 6e

Yeah, I don't begrudge them that much, but I wish they hadn't done 6e. There was a kind of general feeling that figured characteristics needed some kind of fix, but in the end it felt like 6e wasn't a fix. They did need to make money...still I wish they had stopped with 5e Revised. Because I think 4e was the most-played version. And if they had pushed their luck and hit gold with 5e Revised, and told people that 4e and 5e are very compatible, they could have kept the band together. But pushing for 6e with diminishing numbers in the hope it would attract more people was a gamble that didn't pay off, in my opinion. It just made people lose confidence in the product.

Instead they could have started putting out supplements that simultaneously applied to 4e and 5e Revised. They could have doubled back to how they sold some campaign fragments, like Allston's Strikeforce and all the fun Guardians/Foxbat stuff in the 2e books.

But hindsight is 20/20. And they probably made the decision that kept the brand alive, so who am I to judge?

 

[Papa Bear]

@RedMax So, I just went through my 6e and Complete PDFs and never found quirks so I'm at a loss. Probably some roleplay decision someone's GM allows that was assumed to be in the rules. I do know that in Complications I create for the RPG systems I create (I'm insane and can't stop creating RPG Systems) I always include Quirks so I was like, "Woah, how did I not know Quirks were in Champions!"

 

[RedMax]

4 minutes ago, Papa Bear said:

@RedMax So, I just went through my 6e and Complete PDFs and never found quirks so I'm at a loss. Probably some roleplay decision someone's GM allows that was assumed to be in the rules. I do know that in Complications I create for the RPG systems I create (I'm insane and can't stop creating RPG Systems) I always include Quirks so I was like, "Woah, how did I not know Quirks were in Champions!"

 

Yeah, thank God. I thought I was losing my mind. Yeah, folks, Quirks are a house rule I think but the rest holds together. I'd say look at both Wolverine write-ups, ignore the Quirk-iness of the one I posted.

[RedMax]

Y'know, I'm tempted to rewrite the Wolverine into a more newcomer-friendly version. The style of both of these is a kind of almost "legalese" that I do not subscribe to. My write-ups are simpler and easier to understand.

I'll do that and post my results below. Just so you can see that Hero 5e is actually not as complicated as these examples are making it seem.

Edited October 27, 2023 by RedMax (see edit history)

[leons1701]

Second one is definitely better, though they undersell his Presence at least as much as the first one oversold it (and I loved that "Snikt" power, even if I might have tweaked it a bit). Also kind of lowballing his stealth and survival skills. Disadvantages are definitely better on the first version. Not at all sure about the way they implemented his skeleton in the second, Champions really doesn't have rules for broken bones as such so it seems rather off. But the stats are much better, they remembered the enhanced senses, overall a better effort. Of course, statting existing characters is an arcane art in any system and in a system as complex as Champions you can get similar results in very different ways. I'm reminded of seeing three completely different writeups for Spider-Man's web shooting, each of which had completely different mechanics and each one felt like a reasonable approximation of things he can and has done in the comics, none of them was perfect, none of them were bad. (We don't talk about the one guy I knew that statted Spider-Man in GURPS to have enough DR to bounce .50 BMG rounds off his skin. Some things are just wrong).

[RedMax]

REDMAX'S WOLVERINE

 

Val: Char: Cost

20 STR 10

24 DEX 42

30 CON 40

20 BODY 20

18 INT 8

13 EGO 6

18 PRESENCE 8

10 COMELINESS 0

20 PD 16

20 ED 14

5 SPEED (3.4 base) 16

15 RECOVERY 10

60 ENDURANCE 0

50 STUN 5

Total Characteristics Cost = 195

 

 

Super Powers

67 3d6 Hand-to-hand Killing Attack, Armor Piercing (Adamantium Claws) 3.5d6 with Strength

6  +2 to all Perception

14 +2 to Smell Perception; Discriminatory And Tracking Scent

11 Regenerate 1 BODY/ turn; regrow limbs Healing 1D6, Regrow limbs; Persistent (+1 Advantage), Self Only (-1/2 Limitation) Extra Time: one turn (-1¼ Limitation)

10 Damage Resistance 10 PD/ 10 ED (Metal Skeleton)

34 Life Support verses Extreme Heat/Cold, High Radiation, High/Low Pressure, Extended Breathing (1 Endurance/ 5 minutes), Longevity (400 years), Immunity to All Poisons/Toxins and All Disease/Bio-Warfare

 

Martial Arts

4 Martial Strike +0, +2, 10D6

3 Martial Throw +0, +1, 8D6 +v/5

4 Martial Escape +0, +0, +35 STR to escape grab (55 total)

16 +4 Damage Classes w/ Martial Arts

 

 

Skills/ Talents/ Perks

4 +2 OCV w/ Claws

 

2 Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee Weapons

2 Weapon Familiarity: Common Missile Weapons

2 Weapon Familiarity: Common Martial Art Weapons

2 Weapon Familiarity: Small Arms

3 Stealth 14-

3 Climbing 13-

6 Survival (Arctic, Mountain, Temperate) 12-

 

--------------

Powers and skills cost = 193

 

Disadvantages

Distinctive Feature: Registers as a Mutant on Mutant Detectors (10)

Social Limitation: Mutant minority (10)

Psych Limitation: Code of Honor and Justice (Strong) (20)

Psych Limitation: Overconfidence (Very Common circumstance, Strong) (20)

Enraged when BODY halved (Uncommon circumstance, 11-, 11-) (15)

Hunted by Black Ops Military Org. (More Powerful than PC, Group has Noncombat Influence, 8-) (20)

Psych Limitation: Cannot remember own past (15)

Hunted:  X-Men Rogues Gallery (Infrequently 8-, As Powerful as PC; Group has Noncombat Influence; Groups Seeks To Harshly Punish) (15)

Enraged:  Rogue or Jean Grey in Trouble (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 14- (15)

Vulnerability: 1.5x Stun from Magnetic and Electrical (10)

Disadvantages Total = 150

Experience Points Spent (38)

 

 

Total Character Points = 388 points

Edited October 27, 2023 by RedMax (see edit history)

[Tecmes]

11 hours ago, RedMax said:

Martial Arts (Unique form)

4 Marital Strike +0, +2, 10D6 (+3 DC to KA)

A "Marital" strike is indeed a Unique form. How long can *that* strike last, I wonder.