Do most people prefer rolling or point buys for ability scores?

[TheFred]

6 hours ago, Kelb_Panthera said:

From where I sit; it's an admittedly noticeable difference in carry capacity if we're talking strength (around 70% greater for the 18), the difference between qualifying for two-weapon fighting without a race or equipment boost on dexterity, and (this is the part that makes it difficult for me to accept as true) 10% difference on any roll of the dice regardless of which abiilty it's assigned to. That just doesn't seem that dramatic to me, particularly in a system as complex as 3e/PF1 where ability score bonuses make up a small portion of the overall bonuses to almost anything by level ~5-7 or so.

If we're talking Str, a +4 bonus translates to a +2 bonus to attack rolls and - probably - a +3 bonus to damage rolls. But a +2 bonus to AB is quite big - it's not just a 10% difference, because probably you are hitting some fraction of the time already anyway. Going from, say, 60% hits to 70% hits is actually a 16.7% increase in hits. Also those hits now do more damage. It really does depend on the other numbers, but that can be quite a huge difference between two characters. And, all of this is purely damage output; a Str boost also increases a bunch of skills, combat manoeuvre checks (in PF this is all one bonus but in 3.5, a +2 to trip is pretty big), etc.

The bigger difference comes when you're talking a spellcasting stat. A +2 to DCs is, again, huge (that's Greater Spell Focus for everything and again a significant increase in overall effectiveness), and this gives us bonus spells which only get better with age (the higher our stat, the most bonus slots a +2 bonus gives us). Plus, as with Str, this also boost other stuff like skills - if we're talking Wis it's a +2 bonus to Will and perception skills, and if Int it's +2 skill points per level as well as all those Knowledge bonuses.

A +4 to a stat is in the same sort of ballpark as being a level ahead or behind - it's not worth a full level on its own, but there's a reason that there are very few races or templates that offer a +4 for no level adjustment (and those that do are largely considered mistakes).

 

6 hours ago, ABlotOfInk said:

14/14/13/13/13/11 is stronger than a point buy build. It racks up 32 points out of the usual 27 you're suggested to be allotted in 5e. If you're talking about your stats after racial bonuses it's equal to a point buy build.

The size of the point buy isn't really relevant (actually, in 3.5 that's a 30pb, but if we discount all the odd numbers it's a 26 - on the low side, certainly, and you have no flexibility; the situation is different but similar in PF). What's more important is when one person gets one set of stats and another gets another, and they're wildly different; everything is relative, after all. They don't even have to be better or worse. It's still bad if one person gets an 18 and a load of 8s and another gets a really even spread. Heck, they might be quite happy to swap because neither is "worse" but they are different, and now one person is being pushed into certain classes or roles and the other into others.

6 hours ago, ABlotOfInk said:

Honestly, I like point buy sometimes because it lets me set a low score. It can be fun to give your character a clear flaw or weakness haha.

Also this.

With regard to the difference this makes: see above.

All that said... I'm not sure that the difference really matters, it's still weird. I don't think anyone would run a game where you roll for, say, how many ranks you have in Bluff but nothing else; it's just a bizarre thing to do that would never occur to anyone in the first place. Likewise, I don't think anyone would even consider rolling stats if it hadn't been brought over from earlier additions of the game. I just don't see that it adds anything at all; so far the only reason seems to be that even, optimised/sensibly-picked stats offend our sensibilities somehow.

  

12 minutes ago, cybersavant said:

i don't understand how those of you against rolling stats - i don't see how it unbalance characters

Er... isn't one character having a much greater level of power than another pretty much the definition of imbalance?

Edited November 30, 2023 by TheFred (see edit history)

[Kylia Quilor]

11 hours ago, ABlotOfInk said:

14/14/13/13/13/11 is stronger than a point buy build. It racks up 32 points out of the usual 27 you're suggested to be allotted in 5e. If you're talking about your stats after racial bonuses it's equal to a point buy build.

And that says so much about PointBuy.

19 hours ago, TheFred said:

As someone who's been around here a while... yeah, I've had mediocre rolls when someone else gets something great. Doesn't really matter if that's one data point; it's one too many (see also: my previous example). I've also had good rolls when others have had good rolls, amazing rolls when others haven't, pretty much every permutation you can care to think of. It all just adds up to: this sucks.

There's great and then there's a difference big enough to actually be an issue. Unless your definition of issue is 'anyone has points higher than me'

[Fwog]

Wait... rolling for stats is outdated? Literally every single game i have ever been at used rolling for stats.

[Powderhorn]

We are going to go ahead and close this, as we are broadly getting into the category of "edition wars." While there are numerous ways to play the game, and there is fruitful discussion in this topic, it seems as if it has run its course and opinions are fairly entrenched, with mere sniping back and forth.