What's Your Favorite Super System?

[cailano]

I'm obviously not very familiar with narrative systems but it sounds interesting, especially for casual players. Masks seems a little narrow as a game for teen characters only (although I get that it's great if you're looking for that sub-genre). Is there a good supers narrative system that is a little more open?

[Actana]

I'd hesitate to emphasize it as good for "casual players", as that implies things that are not true. It's no less deep of a game as other, supposedly crunchier systems. Its depth is simply in other things that numbers and power combinations. I'd call it perhaps "more approachable", as you don't need to delve into a giant system of superpowers to get into the proper superhero fantasy you're going for. It's a lot easier to just pick and go and still retain efficiency and the proper feel for a character's powers.

As far as the narrow scope, yeah, it's made for teenage superheroes. It is a bit narrow, but I find it hard to hold against it as a system. It's built to do a thing, and that thing it accomplishes in a way that is a masterclass in tying mechanics to theme. Everything about the game reinforces its theme, and does so in a superbly interconnected way. I don't go looking to play gritty modern espionage stories in D&D, so why should I look to play a game as tightly made as Masks as something it's not made to do?

Anyway, there's a game called Galaxies in Peril which is a Forged in the Dark (of Blades in the Dark ilk) superhero game. I haven't read it myself, but it might be worth looking at. From the same people who previously made Worlds in Peril, a PbtA superhero game (which isn't nearly as good as Masks).

Edited December 6, 2023 by Actana (see edit history)

[cailano]

Sure, I wasn't trying to knock Masks or any other system. More approachable is a good way of phrasing it.

 

[Actana]

On a more positive note, there are several other mechanics in Masks that really sell the theme:

• Influence: teens care what others think about them. Characters have influence over each other and can try to tell them who they are and how they should act. This can change your stats around, as it impacts how you see yourself as well. By default, all adults have influence over you, including villains. PCs also can have influence over each other. Influence can be gained and lost, and those callouts can be denied.
• Failing checks grants you XP. It's the primary way in fact. Because you learn by failing.
• Gaining enough experience allows you to unlock "adult moves" which are more powerful or sophisticated versions of your basic moves. Directly Engage versus Overwhelm a Vulnerable Foe, for example. (You still keep the prior move too).
• Characters have a built in retirement system, where you can either retire from superhero life, or you "become a paragon of the city", joining the other adult superheroes. XP is called Growth, after all, and eventually everyone grows up.
• Villains have conditions as well, a varying amount based on how complex they are as characters.

And probably several other things I've forgotten about because I'm on my phone late in the evening.

[ABlotOfInk]

Great examples Actana! Yeah, Masks' high praise is definitely earned. It's amazingly well constructed and focused. It's honestly the best of the handful of pbta games I've played. There have been a lot of games that have taken it as more inspiration than the original Apocalypse World.

Narrative games aren't always for new players! Sure you have a lot fewer numbers to keep track of, but roleplay in and of itself is a skill you have to build. There are a lot of people who flounder with what to do when given games that are too open, and struggle maintaining a character distinct from themselves. Narrative games ushine when players know how to balance pushing the envelope and pulling back for the sake of the collaborative storytelling. That's advanced stuff! Some people are better eased in with games that are crunchier and can sort of ease them in with more structure to start off with.

[Phantom Mouse]

I think Truimphant is a solid system with easy character creation and dynamic combat options.

[Papa Bear]

I've not approached trying to GM a Champions game in PbP for all the reasons stated. There's just no way to simulate the combat system in PbP except for the players who have high speeds to be committed to being on line checking for new posts so they can post in appropriate intervals so the game doesn't lag waiting for them to post because they get 7 actions when everyone else gets 3 or 4. I've thought about Cal's idea of requiring everyone to have a speed of 4. That hurts in the ways that Roughtrade described. But its so much easier to do play by post when the players can all act, then the villains all act. I was also thinking of Bosses having higher speeds, but Mooks and henchmen having lower speeds so the heroes can clobber them two at a time.

I was just in a Champions game and I really was enjoying it. Loved my toon. It didn't die in the first combat, we had a few of them. It died because the GM up and left MW. Sadness.

Anyway, I love the Supers genre and would like to run a champions game (like to play one more though!) but would need to figure out how exactly I'm going to deal with the Speed issue because its just something cool that no other system has, but creates a headache for PbP.

[Butchern]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:47 PM, ABlotOfInk said:

Narrative games aren't always for new players! Sure you have a lot fewer numbers to keep track of, but roleplay in and of itself is a skill you have to build. There are a lot of people who flounder with what to do when given games that are too open, and struggle maintaining a character distinct from themselves. Narrative games ushine when players know how to balance pushing the envelope and pulling back for the sake of the collaborative storytelling. That's advanced stuff! Some people are better eased in with games that are crunchier and can sort of ease them in with more structure to start off with.

I don't think the problems described above are problems specific to "narrative games" (though, to be clear, neither Masks nor Fate are narrative or story games by about half the definitions out there), and I would argue that these problems are actually helped by "narrative games," not made worse by them. The conclusion here implies that a "narrative game" does not have as much structure as a "crunchier game," which is not only not true, it is typically exactly the opposite, especially when it comes to actual role-playing. Narrative/story games tend to forward the role-playing structure and prioritize it in play.

For me, RPG systems are like tools in the tool bag. I learn one and use it until it won't do what I want it to do, then I go get a new one. So, for me . . .

• When the point of the supers game is to explore the heroes' powers and what they can do with them in the world, I use Mutants and Masterminds 3e. I know the system, and it does what it does very well for us. I haven't ever tried to play this sort of game and found the system lacking in what I needed it to do.
   
• When the point of the supers game is focused on almost anything else, we use Fate Core. It is a sufficient tool for everything else we've needed it to do (unless, as I said above, the game is about answering questions like, "Exactly how much can I lift?"), and we know it very well.

I do love Masks and would second all the positive things everyone has said about it here, but playing teenagers is about the last thing I ever want to do. 😁

Edited December 10, 2023 by Butchern (see edit history)

[Lord Foul]

10 hours ago, Papa Bear said:

Anyway, I love the Supers genre and would like to run a champions game (like to play one more though!) but would need to figure out how exactly I'm going to deal with the Speed issue because its just something cool that no other system has, but creates a headache for PbP.

I think you basically nailed it in your last post. You just need to have a serious conversation with any player who wants to play a speedster, to satisfy yourselves that they are the type of player who will do it justice; be there pretty much instantly and quick-fire responses to anything that happens. There are players like that out there (I know, I am one), but what you don't want is someone saying they want a speedster but then posting reeeeaaaalllly slooooowwwllly. Come on people, inhabit your character!

 

[cailano]

8 hours ago, Lord Foul said:

I think you basically nailed it in your last post. You just need to have a serious conversation with any player who wants to play a speedster, to satisfy yourselves that they are the type of player who will do it justice; be there pretty much instantly and quick-fire responses to anything that happens. There are players like that out there (I know, I am one), but what you don't want is someone saying they want a speedster but then posting reeeeaaaalllly slooooowwwllly. Come on people, inhabit your character!

 

Haha, great point!

[leons1701]

Yeah, I tried. I'm a guy who's on multiple times a day every day, but when you have to work at exactly the time everybody else seems to post, you're constantly coming home to a three page conversation you haven't participated in. That game was amazing, but sometimes just a wee bit frustrating. At least combat didn't go like that. Course, it was also M&M, not Champions.

[Papa Bear]

On 12/10/2023 at 4:29 AM, Lord Foul said:

I think you basically nailed it in your last post. You just need to have a serious conversation with any player who wants to play a speedster, to satisfy yourselves that they are the type of player who will do it justice; be there pretty much instantly and quick-fire responses to anything that happens. There are players like that out there (I know, I am one), but what you don't want is someone saying they want a speedster but then posting reeeeaaaalllly slooooowwwllly. Come on people, inhabit your character!

 

Right!

[MarmaladeMage]

Going to put in a mention for Golden Heroes and especially its successor, Squadron UK. A fast, light system with rules for campaign play and most especially substantially random character creation followed by the entertaining need to rationalise each power rolled. Also the use of damage dividers so there is progressive resistance to damage, but very little damage immunity. Works best for low-mid power levels; doesn’t handle cosmic level powers (e.g Flash level speed) that well.