Discussion

[Ratpigeon]

6 hours ago, AdellRazh said:

Mercy of mercies, it's an exotic weapon, so you do need to have spent a week studying a real one before you can add it as a bound weapon. This weapon costs the entire WBL of a 14th-level character.

It falls to the GM, but I don't support a martial firearm character being able to trivially outclass every other character in the party at 9th level.

I wouldn't say trivially outclassed. In AOE sure, but 10d6 is a destructive blast at this level.

Full round action to make a 10d6 attack in an (admittedly huge) area. And it's pretty limited in ways to buff that action. One talent (Destruction, Shape Focus, Type focus, Explosive Orb and either Force Blast or Drowning blast), and 2k for a +1 implement can create a pretty similar dupe for 2 spell points (20 foot radius instead of a huge cone, but usually, a 20' radius is enough).

By contrast- Danika is single target, but she can Glory her encompassing light talent to be effectively Huge wielding a Gargantuan sword for a full attack with a 4d8+13, 15-20/×2 crit weapon. Stack Temporal Haste (move action) with spell-combat Steal Time to Daze an enemy and get an extra Standard Action - she can full attack twice and put a destructive blast or some pretty crippling debuffs on her second spell combat. Intoxicating Darkness Looming Darkness and Incandescent Blast all debuff will saves to help land the Steal Time (or any of Spark's illusions).

10d6 AOE is great for sweeping minions, but against a boss, Danika outpaces the Vortex gun.

Meanwhile, Fey Adept is the ultimate utility caster - sure, Spark isn't keeping pace with damage, but a creative Fey Adept can run wild with battlefield control.

And Olympia and Phechan have like 30 AOEs per round between them, which Spark can enable like crazy with her illusions.

Edited February 16 by Ratpigeon (see edit history)

[Mister Doctor]

Ultimately, I am not concerned about the GETE's DPR. Remember, I've got five sets of actions to work with here. The GETE's main mechanical leverage is going to be the wielding the action economy like a sledge hammer. I am, to a degree, keeping myself constrained. The GETE is, conceptually, the team's mook squad. Danika, Olympia, and Eosi are the ones to get into brawls with the important enemies while ancillaries do dramatic fighting in the background or guarding Spark.

(Granted, the day the GETE has to go one on 'one' with a powerful enemy is going to be impressively messy and probably require the rest of the party to really reconsider things)

[AdellRazh]

18 minutes ago, Ratpigeon said:

Meanwhile, Fey Adept is the ultimate utility caster - sure, Spark isn't keeping pace with damage, but a creative Fey Adept can run wild with battlefield control.

I'm not worried about Spark being outdone in damage. I'm a little bit protective of her skill in eliminating masses of minions, but if none of the DPR are worried about being replaced by the magic glove I'll drop it.

 

25 minutes ago, Ratpigeon said:

And Olympia and Phechan have like 30 AOEs per round between them, which Spark can enable like crazy with her illusions.

Wait, I can? Explain this to me.

[Rudra]

I think he meant Attack of opportunity, not AOE, and i suppose spark can help trigger them by drawing people away with illusions or concealing the party members.(biara has 8 attacks of opportunity per round, but will likely hold at least 4, for defense )

 

You'll hurt Biara feelings if you call her "the magic glove"

 

To clarify how it work, Biara isnt built for ranged fighting, so she's very unlikely to use guns(she's an unharmed/natural attack, tankish build) and if she turn into a gun to be used by someone else, instead of the magic glove😄, that person lose a ton of defense(no shield bonus to ac, to touch ac, no resistance bonus to saves, no bonus to cmd, Biara cant use archon style, nor defend others talent since ranged weapons dont threaten)

Personally i wouldnt suggest using biara as gun, unless it's a situation where you know you wont be attacked or if the wielder defenses are already adequate for the foe.

I took that only because it costed a single talent, there were some apps from high tech worlds and i thought..technology weapons+biara=warhammer40k chaos or ork tech, little investment for a great return, but as said i can remove it if it's a problem, it's not a core element of the build

Edited February 16 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Mister Doctor]

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

To clarify how it work, Biara isnt built for ranged fighting, so she's very unlikely to use guns(she's an unharmed/natural attack, tankish build) and if she turn into a gun to be used by someone else, instead of the magic glove😄, that person lose a ton of defense(no shield bonus to ac, to touch ac, no resistance bonus to saves, no bonus to cmd, Biara cant use archon style, nor defend others talent since ranged weapons dont threaten)

Personally i wouldnt suggest using biara as gun, unless it's a situation where you know you wont be attacked or if the wielder defenses are already adequate for the foe.

I took that only because it costed a single talent, there were some apps from high tech worlds and i thought..technology weapons+biara=warhammer40k chaos or ork tech, little investment for a great return, but as said i can remove it if it's a problem, it's not a core element of the build

I vaguely remember you mentioning an ability to designate a back-up weirder to teleport to if your current weirder drops.

If that's correct, my suggestion is picking up an X-Laser instead of the vortex gun and designating my sniper ancillary. That's a fairly potent 'oh shit' button we can hit if things start going wrong and the X-Laser plays better with the ranged spheres of might abilities so I can pick up the slack in terms of abilities Biara cannot provide innately.

Edited February 16 by Mister Doctor (see edit history)

[Rudra]

The third bonded weapon is really "for the party" , whatever people want i'll do, the first two are reserved for stuff Biara need to keep her stats in demon form(armor&glove) i suspect we will change it pretty often, especially during downtime(the ability to get 2 magic talents will greatly please the casters)

Biara can be teleported from wielder to back-up wielder(and vice versa) as a move action, or as immediate action(for up to 1 minute than it return to the sender) but there is a range limit(95 feet) and need line of sight(see Warden, subtlety).

But changing forms take a full round action(there is an arsenal trick to speed it up but i had more important stuff to pick) so to perform the maneuver you mentioned we would need a favorable initiative order and biara wont be able to attack that turn

Es:

Sender, send during his turn(or off turn as immediate)

Biara full round change shape

Sniper does his sniping thing

It would be an x-laser with up to +5 worth of enchantments (es. +5 x-laser, or a +4 flaming x-laser and so on, the list of available enchantment is in the armorist page)

If you use guns that fire bullets, biara can make cold iron, silver or mithral bullets, not sure if it's useful but i find it a cute little bonus.

See the last post in my character thread for a summary of the things Biara provide

Edited February 16 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Phechan]

5 hours ago, AdellRazh said:

I'm not worried about Spark being outdone in damage. I'm a little bit protective of her skill in eliminating masses of minions, but if none of the DPR are worried about being replaced by the magic glove I'll drop it.

 

Wait, I can? Explain this to me.

Seconded re: Rudra's interpretation of AoOs, not AoEs. I can't speak with 100% confidence on Olympia's behalf, as I've only glanced at her sheet, but by and large, it looks like she and Eosi expect to deal most damage as attacks of opportunity rather than during their own turn. They both have several AoOs available per round (Eosi has 14, and in another two levels, will likely be adding another 10 to that total), and they both make use of the Guardian sphere's Patrol mechanic (so can Biara, but how that works in glove form, I'm unsure - I expect that's more a case of granting these abilities to her wearer?).

In Eosi's case, he'll be using his standard action each round (unless someone needs resurrecting) to activate his patrol, allowing him to increase the area he threatens to 25ft. He can make AoOs with non-spell-pointed destructive blasts within that range, and he gets an AoO whenever:

-an enemy moves out of a threatened square without withdrawing or using 5ft step (like everybody else would, of course)

-an enemy uses a ranged attack while in a threatened square (like everybody, again)

-an enemy uses a move action in general (like everybody :))

-an enemy attacks an ally who was inside my threat range but doesn't include me in the attack (Eosi and Olympia have this ability, but other characters generally don't)

 

There are several other abilities and synergies that tie in with all these (e.g. I suspect Olympia gets a free offhand attack whenever she uses an AoO), and we have incentive for reserving some of our AoOs per round for defensive stuff, like giving an attacked all an AC buff or taking damage in their place. In Eosi's case, most of his healing in combat is intended to come from spending an AoO at any time to heal someone for between 18-60hp, depending on need, although he has to keep refreshing his protection magic on those he does the full heal on, which means a round without his patrol active.

 

I suppose the implication of how Spark could instigate AoOs for party members would be in terms of manipulating enemies into moving around and near us, because each square in our patrol areas will trigger attacks from us. If creating illusory allies, the fourth dot point in my list above specifically only works when an "ally" is attacked, so would require legitimate reality/substance to the illusion punching bag that an enemy wastes time attacking for that to give us a free attack.

[AdellRazh]

I assumed it was supposed to be AoOs. Typos aside, that's an interesting type of utility that I had not considered. Please let me know when I can trigger your delicious, delicious AoOs.

1 hour ago, Phechan said:

I suppose the implication of how Spark could instigate AoOs for party members would be in terms of manipulating enemies into moving around and near us, because each square in our patrol areas will trigger attacks from us. If creating illusory allies, the fourth dot point in my list above specifically only works when an "ally" is attacked, so would require legitimate reality/substance to the illusion punching bag that an enemy wastes time attacking for that to give us a free attack.

If the enemy believes they're attacking your ally, and you believe they're attacking your ally, aren't they attacking your ally?

I'm actually unclear on the answer. The text on illusory creatures isn't clear, either. It seems that they are simply treated as creatures, other than that a Will save means you realise they don't exist.

Quote

Illusionary Creatures: If creating an illusionary creature, your illusion has an attack bonus equal to your caster level + your casting ability modifier, and an AC and touch AC equal to 10 + its size modifier + 1/2 your caster level + your casting ability modifier. An illusionary creature may provide a flanking bonus against targets who fail to disbelieve it. Any creature who strikes an illusionary creature in combat (unless augmented by Illusionary Touch) receives the standard +5 circumstance bonus to disbelieve it, and any creature struck by the illusionary creature receives the same bonus (unless augmented by Illusionary Touch 2x). All actions that an illusionary creature performs must be contained within the figment of the illusion that created it, regardless of the size of the illusionary creature itself.

It even counts as a flanking partner.

Oh, there's a thought. If Spark took Outflank, would it benefit her illusions? I suspect not... But, even if not, that's probably something I should remember to include on create reality'd companions.

 

1 hour ago, Phechan said:

(so can Biara, but how that works in glove form, I'm unsure - I expect that's more a case of granting these abilities to her wearer?).

Biara has her own actions that she can use through her wielder. As of 7th level, this includes being able to take AoOs.

Edited February 17 by AdellRazh (see edit history)

[Phechan]

All good points and details to consider, thanks :3

[Davkas]

Olympia's only got 5 AOOs a round, but yes, she's got Dual Opportunity so she gets an offhand attack when she uses an AOO, and attacking an ally in her threatened space (15 feet when she patrols) provokes from her. Oh, and she can patrol and start a dance with the same action thanks to her Bravo whim (for instance, Belligerent Choreography, which is going to be fun in a party with three patrollers - if an enemy starts their turn in the threatened area of any dancer with that up, they take a little damage and are battered unless they make a Reflex save).

The main reason Olympia might want to hang on to some of her AOOs is that she can use them to give herself a miss chance with Cunning Celerity, but she's high enough level that she has other options for doing that. Or if she's got Cold Iron Call or Durable (she's got them as Spontaneous Techniques so they're not always on atm) she might want to spend AOOs to move next to somebody and take an attack for them that one of those would absorb.

Other things to be aware of fighting around Olympia:

- You can join her dances one of three ways: spend a move action and move up to half your speed, take a five-foot step, or spend an immediate action to move five feet (that last one can be done in response to an attack or something you make a Reflex save against to get a +2 dodge bonus to AC against that attack or to the save). Once you do one of those things, you've got the effect of the dance until the start of your next turn.

- Like her patrol, her dance radius is 15 feet right now (it runs on multiples of five so it'll go up to 20 next level). Once you've joined the dance, leaving it doesn't make you lose the bonus, though you'd need to get back in the radius to join again next turn.

- Olympia's got Expert Feint, so when she feints somebody they just straight-up lose their Dex bonus to AC until the start of her next turn, for the purposes of everything, not just her next attack.

- She's also still got most of her Bardic Performance options so she can inspire courage for +2 to attack and damage for anybody who can perceive her, or toss Inspire Greatness at somebody if they need some temp HP.

[Rudra]

Ignore Biara patrol related stuff, it's a dead branch , took it as prerequisite for other, non patrol things i wanted, Biara wont patrol.

While she mainly buff/protect the wielder, she can also help those adjacent to her in melee.

The best set up would be wielder and back-up wielder,adjacent, fighting against the same foe, there all the stars align and she hand out gifts like santa claus

 

I think Olympia, Eosi and Biara can combo their abilities into a fearsome defense

Eosi can heal,buff defense and redirect damage, he protect in a large area(dont know the exact numbers)

Olympia has the mobility to go around and protect in a medium sized area(dont know the exact numbers)

Biara buff the wielder ac to the sky (+7 shield bonus(+5 to touch ac), +2 guard bonus, +2 dodge bonus when using archon style, +4 when using defend other)+5 resistance bonus to saves, +5 cmd, and if everything else fail, can take hits in her place, as an object she has some immunity , for example if the wielder get hit by a paralyzing touch Biara can redirect it to self and laugh it off, Biara can also help those adjacent to the wielder, she protect in a small area(basically a 3x3 area centered on wielder)

By using Olympia as the main tank, wielding biara, the foe will have to deal with a tough defense and ignoring her wont be easy due to your patrols and our attack redirection, if we keep eosi within olympia threaten area enemies wont be able to easily blitz the caster.

 

I dont know if and how Biara can take part to the dance, when possessing Olympia she can use her actions to attack/cast spells/use abilities with olympia body(or cast spells herself) but she cant spend a move action to move herself, nor spend a move action to move a "guided" olympia (there are two kinds of possession, the brief one that last a few seconds at most, to let her do stuff in combat while letting the wielder also do their things and a true possession that give her total control of the wielder but remove the wielder ability to take action, basically turning it into a drone, Biara never use the latter, not even on foes, when i write about possession i mean the brief one)

i think she probably cant join the dance, it's an object after all, she physically cant, i'd play as if she couldnt join even if she could just for rp flavor, this would sadden her greatly and i think she would struggle to find a way to be part of it, sort of like "i'm failing my wielder"

 

 

Edited February 17 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Saberfan]

The first real gameplay post is officially live! Go on and mingle in the tavern; I'll leave it up to you all whether you come in as a group or go alone and simply meet up shortly thereafter.

[Rudra]

Biara met Eosi a few weeks ago and that is also around the time she discovered the nexus,a few days ago she officially joined the realmwardens and has spent most of her time following Eosi around, very little time but its possible someone noticed her, shes quite conspicuous

Since Eosi has been a realmwarden for 10 years, it is possible that other characters know him, either as friends, party members, acquaintances or whatever you like

Anyone interested in establishing links between characters?

[Phechan]

If Biara has literally been an official Realmwarden for only a few days, Eosi has probably volunteered to be an official mentor, because letting a newbie go out alone and a) get annihilated or b) tarnish the guild's reputation are probably things the guild actively wants to prevent with fresh members. I'll post in-game within the next few hours, but shall leave it vague enough for Biara to decide if she's currently adorning his hand in a mostly leather gauntlet form or what have you :P

 

I am sure I will fight to the death to protect the adorable-sounding Yuki Kuso, but I also cackled when I saw her name, as it can easily translate to Snow Shit hehe.

[Ratpigeon]

Quick question - how does GETE interact with buffs? Do I need to cast 4 Clear-sighted melds on him? Or do they share the buff?