House rules discussion

[dalamb]

15 hours ago, TheFred said:

Unfortunately I believe the LA buyoff is capped at +4? It means you start a level behind so you can't get L5 spells anyway but you still can't afford L4s. I think I'd rather just boost my point buy and perhaps nab some kind of more modestly-priced race or template with a Wis bonus.

Yes it is, and to some extent because I though allowing some of the higher-LA races would be kind of bonkers in this game. There was a game I probably won't revive that never got off the ground where high-LA monsters were expected as the norm.

[Steel Warrior]

27 minutes ago, dalamb said:

That requires a house rule that "always chaotic evil" (and "always alignment X" in general) goes away. One GM did let me get away with an "almost chaotic neutral" succubus character in some gestalt game or other, but I did feel that was sort of cheesy.

I think when they made savage species, they "broke" a lot of rules of always X.

[dalamb]

Well, for now I haven't changed it. I really need to get to writing the section of Campaign Lore that deals with how different cultures react to sentient monsters.

[namo]

52 minutes ago, dalamb said:

2024-03-07 10:34

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A feat restricted to another class costs 1 CP instead of two – but it is still true that “Fighter Level 4*n” feats are now based on BAB 4*n instead.

I believe you meant BAB 5*n.
At least, that's what's written in this post:

Quote

Weapon Focus: [...] The restriction “fighter level 4*n” is replaced by “BAB 5*n”

 

[TheBard101]

I was going to post the same but couldn't copy/paste on my phone.

 

Lol

[dalamb]

Yes, you are right: BAB 5*n

[TheFred]

4 hours ago, dalamb said:

I used to have spellcaster nerfs in my house rules, but I decided I liked a system where you could build a completely standard spellcaster, but other people got boosts that spellcasters could get less of. I know some people have expressed sentiments roughly like "spellcasters are nerfed under these rules" but the way I look at it, that's only true because people think spellcasters ought to dominate.

Well, everything's relative. If you're the only one not getting buffs then, effectively, you are getting nerfed. This certainly feels less punitive, though.

4 hours ago, dalamb said:

That requires a house rule that "always chaotic evil" (and "always alignment X" in general) goes away. One GM did let me get away with an "almost chaotic neutral" succubus character in some gestalt game or other, but I did feel that was sort of cheesy.

In general I'm a fan of doing away with the racial alignments thing, something which amounts to a weird kind of fantasy racism that generally feels pretty unhealthy. So Drow must be evil because they are born that way? Sounds wrong to me. However, demons and devils are creatures that embody the primal forces of evil; they're not just "always evil" they have the evil subtype and are fluffed as essentially being made of the stuff, at least insofar as anyone can be made of a thing that's essentially just a concept. It's always felt like a bit of a cop-out to me to say "oh, hey, my Succubus just grew a conscience one day, no big deal". No reason why it oughtn't be possible (Helms of chessiness notwithstanding, angels can fall to evil, why not demons do the opposite?) but it seems like a very big deal and in need of some explanation.

But anyway, I digress. Again.

[rorytheromulan]

If Power Attack is free, then all qualifying characters may simply get the Cleave tree, and Improved Rush/Overrun/Sunder feats for free with progression as long as they have 13 Strength or higher (and as they advance, they likely will).

I think that there should be a feat early in the chain that is required to buy before you can specialize in cleaving greatness.

Or maybe I just missed this part being addressed.

Edited March 8 by rorytheromulan (see edit history)

[Thramzorean]

There are a bunch of potential chains with power attack as their base. It might be better to keep power attack as free, and then build the chains (if dalamb wants them) off the base related feat e.g. you take cleave then get great cleave when qualifying, etc.

Edited March 8 by Thramzorean (see edit history)

[Nameless Void]

2 hours ago, Thramzorean said:

There are a bunch of potential chains with power attack as their base. It might be better to have power attack as free, and then build the chains (if dalamb wants them) off the base related feat e.g. you take cleave then get great cleave when qualifying, etc.

Right at the top re Power Attack :)

14 hours ago, dalamb said:

2024-03-07 12:32

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Rule changes:

1. Power Attack is now free at BAB +1 like Weapon Finesse.

2. Dodge is now valid against all opponents, and gives a +1 + (BAB/4 rounded down) dodge bonus to AC.

3. Point Blank Shot now gives Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot when you meet the prerequisites. I will consider other changes if folks make more suggestions.

4. It costs two CP for each “category” of warlock invocation: least, lesser, greater, dark.

5. TWF extra attacks get full BAB but also the normal RAW penalties for fighting with two weapons.

6. The revision to the Knowledge skills stacks with Knowledge devotion.

Results of other rules discussions:

1. Expeditious Dodge won’t be in the free progressive feat rules, but others are still under consideration.

2. I won’t be changing the alignment rules, and thus neither relaxing the rules for class requirements nor the “always alignment X” rules for monsters.

3. I don’t plan to change how progressive feats work; in particular I won’t be implementing the suggestion that you be able to choose some instead of getting a predefined package. I am still considering some suggestions of additional feat chains and even a few new feats or feats imported from unlisted sources.

4. I won’t be adding Stormwrack’s Unarmed Strike progression with Clever Wrestling and Toothed Blow to the progressive feat chain, but remember you do get get a free Stormwrack feat.

5. Ranged attacks just get the normal +1 for height advantage.

6. Research for "new" spells (those not in any of the listed sources) are part of a character's Wealth By Level. Normal spells are assumed to have been acquired at no cost.

[Thramzorean]

Thanks Nameless. I had seen it actually. The context of the reply was with regards the post above it suggesting there should be free chains as well running off the free power attack. Ho ho. I've edited for clarity.

[Steel Warrior]

With the Power Attack being free, I would like to suggest a Cleave chain. (Cleaving finish inspired by Pathfinder Ultimate Combat)

Bab +1 Cleave - bab +2 Cleaving Finish (Combat)Cleaving Finish (Combat)

When you strike down an opponent, you can continue your swing into another target.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack.

Benefit: If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat. - bab +4 Great Cleave, bab +6 Improved Cleaving Finish (Combat)Improved Cleaving Finish (Combat)

You can cut down many opponents in a single strike.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Great Cleave, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: You can use Cleaving Finish any number of times per round.

Possible addition Suggestion BAB +3 for FF and Bab +8 for Imp FF
Furious Focus (Combat)Furious Focus (Combat)

Even in the midst of fierce and furious blows, you can find focus in the carnage and your seemingly wild blows strike home.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity. - Improved Furious FocusImproved Furious Focus

Your power attacks strike home.

Prerequisites: Str 15, Power Attack, Furious Focus, base attack bonus +6

Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in two hands and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on attack rolls on your turn. You still suffer the penalty on attacks of opportunity.

Edited March 8 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Thramzorean]

21 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

Possible addition Suggestion BAB +3 for FF and Bab +8 for Imp FF
Furious Focus (Combat)Furious Focus (Combat)

Even in the midst of fierce and furious blows, you can find focus in the carnage and your seemingly wild blows strike home.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity. - Improved Furious FocusImproved Furious Focus

Your power attacks strike home.

Prerequisites: Str 15, Power Attack, Furious Focus, base attack bonus +6

Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in two hands and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on attack rolls on your turn. You still suffer the penalty on attacks of opportunity.

Hmmm... a bit chunky IMHO Steel. For a fighter you only have the 1 attack/rd before you're pretty much into Improved Furious Focus regardless and the AoO deduction still applies then. Need to be careful with the damage stackers in gestalt also. Couple this with a Duskblade or sneak attack and it quickly spins into munchkin land.

(if it comes to that, also a bit surprised Duskblades haven't seen more love - once you've paid off spells on one side they'd be a powerful combo)

[namo]

I concur with Thramzorean. 3.5E already has Leap Attack, Combat Brute, Shock Trooper, etc... as Power Attack enhancers, we don't need to mix in Pathfinder's ones.

Also, Pathfinder's Cleaving Finish is almost exactly like 3.5E's Cleave (the only difference is that attack bonus), and Improved Cleaving Finish like Greater Cleave, so the Cleave chain as proposed doesn't make sense. (Yeah, not sure why PF introduced a prereq feat there, but it's a different topic.)

Edited March 8 by namo (see edit history)

[TheFred]

As much as martials need love, dealing damage (as Str-based two-handlers) is the one thing they’re fine at.

Interestingly, though, I think this does remove the Str requirement from PA? That potentially helps a small number of Dex-based characters a tiny bit.

I think Pathfinder messed with Cleave to remove another option from Fighters. Why let them do an OK thing after spending only one feat at it, when you could make it part of a long chain?