Character creation discussion

[Sundust]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Lord Foul said:

@dalamb I have two questions about that last post.

What do you consider interesting campaign lore in this context? And I'd have thought that anything we put in our backstories that you like you are entitled to use and misuse in any way you see fit. Privilege of DMhood. That might help in not having to define the term.

And I've seen the term statblock used a number of times, but what is it, and what should be included?

 

@Lord Foul

For lore ideas, you can see Fenza's app. The backstory includes a Magecraft University of Andar, a Wesvan Academy of Wizardry, a recently deceased Andoroni naval hero-turned-professor of alchemy known as the Master of Masters, a Sendarine Shipyard, a Wesvan Commerce Protection Guild with its own small ship Destiny's Hound and a motley crew, and a coffeehouse.

Edited March 4 by Sundust (see edit history)

[TheFred]

19 hours ago, 8w_gremlin said:

Quick question: sorry if I've missed this in the thread but how do the new knowledge rules work with Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion), do they stack?

Wow, I totally missed that. That's like free Knowledge Devotion+ to everyone... really helps the knowledge-bots.

13 hours ago, Nameless Void said:

It's pretty complex, hence the request

Monk = Must Be Lawful
Paladin = Lawful Good (or Paladin of Freedom = Chaotic Good)
Druid = Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or Neutral Evil

I may just have to drop druid and work out something else

Yeah you can be a Druid/Monk but not a Druid/Paladin.

To be honest, though, your character doesn't sound all that much like a Paladin, even less like a Monk, and from what you've described I don't know how important Druid is. When someone says "brawler" I tend to think "Barbarian" more than anything, though admittedly I'd be asking the DM if I could have Superior Unarmed Strike if going non-Monk (OA Shaman also sounds like an option - in another game maybe). For your guy, it sounds like he has a pretty strict code of honour (drunkenness notwithstanding), so perhaps being Lawful fits better... how much do you want Druid specifically? Could you do e.g. Monk/Generic Spellcaster, or... I dunno, Spirit Shaman?

[dalamb]

I've added the character creation questions asked since Saturday to the Open and Answered Questions thread.

[Nameless Void]

@TheFred No drama, the concept (a Saint/Apostle of Peace wrapped up as a drunkard) wasn't working so I've gone a different route. Thanks anyway mate!

 

@dalamb Ignore my question, I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[8w_gremlin]

@dalamb  does the Defence Bonus get affected by the character's Dex, Shields, or spells (such as shield) or is it an all-or-nothing affair? 
Can this be affected in anyway, such as Masterworked Tools: Swishy clothing (+2 circumstance bonus to Defence)

Quote

Defence Bonus

All characters get a defensive bonus based on their BAB. Defence bonuses do not stack with armour bonuses; only the larger of the two applies. Unlike armour bonuses, a defence bonus applies against touch attacks. A character’s defence bonus is 3+(BAB/2), rounded up.

 

[Avaday Daydream]

Quote

In this variant, every character has a defense bonus based on his character level. The defense bonus applies to Armor Class. However, it does not stack with the character’s armor bonus. A character wearing armor gains his armor bonus (including any enhancement to that bonus) or his defense bonus—whichever is higher—but not both. The defense bonus stacks with all other bonuses to AC, including the character’s shield bonus, natural armor bonus, and so forth.

Unlike an armor bonus, a defense bonus does improve a character’s AC against touch attacks.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm
@8w_gremlin; this is what it's based on. Normally the Defense Bonus variant would be based on your level and the armor proficiencies your class has, but in this game it's based on your BaB (or Tumble ranks) instead.
Essentially, you could think of it as having a free +X Bracers of Armor, with the bonus that it's added to your touch AC as well. If you wear armor, you'll only get the bigger of your armor bonus or defense bonus. You still get shield bonuses, Dex to AC, dodge bonuses, Monk AC bonus, natural armor, et-cetera as usual.

[8w_gremlin]

3 minutes ago, Avaday Daydream said:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm
@8w_gremlin; this is what it's based on. Normally the Defense Bonus variant would be based on your level and the armor proficiencies your class has, but in this game it's based on your BaB (or Tumble ranks) instead.
Essentially, you could think of it as having a free +X Bracers of Armor, with the bonus that it's added to your touch AC as well. If you wear armor, you'll only get the bigger of your armor bonus or defense bonus. You still get shield bonuses, Dex to AC, dodge bonuses, Monk AC bonus, natural armor, et-cetera as usual.

Thanks @Avaday Daydream, this is perfect, thank you.

So no armour, and a shield would either be Defence Bonus +Dex+shield.

[Barrigan]

8 minutes ago, 8w_gremlin said:

So no armour, and a shield would either be Defence Bonus +Dex+shield.

Yes. The defence bonus replaces the armour bonus and stacks with everything else so circumstance bonuses, deflection bonus, dodge bonus, shield bonus from the Shield spell all stack with it.

Armour bonus from armour, armour enhancement bonus from Bracers of Armour and Mage Armour though would not stack and you'd just get the better of the two.

At least that's my understanding of it.

 

EDIT: on the character building front, has anyone looked at the Magnificent Captain's Coat from Stormwrack?

It takes up the Torso slot and gives constant Endure Elements against Cold, reduces the penalties from high winds by one step and grants +5 to Profession(sailor) and Balance but it also costs 11,000gp which is nearly 1/3 of the budget. If there was ever a campaign for it this is the one but I'm trying to work out if it's worth the cost or is overpriced.

Edited March 5 by Barrigan (see edit history)

[Sundust]

I think I read in one of the threads something about there being no dragons... I checked the Campaign Lore thread, but now am having difficulty finding it (if it exists)...

... Does anybody know where I can see what types of creatures are around? This is primarily for familiar selection. (I know I could always take a monkey or something simple, but I'm interested in knowing what's available.)

 

Also, @dalamb, I am tempted to suggest more Extraordinary Skill spells, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to be using the mechanic, so I'd have a rather big self-interest in doing so... (I may just go ahead and post more suggestions, anyway, but...) If there's any way you could flesh those skill spells out more, it would help a lot with character point decisions, which are foundational to each character (especially casters).

Edited March 5 by Sundust (see edit history)

[rorytheromulan]

That was here. Entries from Savage Species are being vetted per request.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/index.php?/topic/16803-open-and-answered-questions/#comment-240947

https://www.myth-weavers.com/index.php?/topic/16347-character-creation-rules/

Minus Savage Species, If you can find stats for a player character of any race within one of the sources, it should be fair to assume that it's allowed, unless he changes his mind. My Large monstrous creature got its hoof in the door, so those must be valid.

[Steel Warrior]

As am slightly against an anthropomorphic baleen whale LOL Large LA+0 3hd beast

[Nameless Void]

Oh... please no...

[Barrigan]

1 hour ago, Steel Warrior said:

As am slightly against an anthropomorphic baleen whale LOL Large LA+0 3hd beast

I played one of those once. Called him Levi Athan. He was a druid and his animal companion was a snapping turtle who rode on top of his head. The turtle's name was Helmut. Good times!

But yes, bit of a broken race.

[TheFred]

Eh, overpowered maybe, but not broken (and actually a whale would be bang on theme for an aquatic game!). Here the HD are possibly as big a drawback as any LA would be and it doesn’t really offer anything that you can’t already have (options like Half-Ogre are already available). The Wis bonuses might be a bigger deal for all you whale Clerics out there.

[Sundust]

More Extraordinary Skill Ideas! This time, I'm putting down all the ones dalamb posted originally, plus those from my March 1 post, plus new ones from after March 1 (marked with an asterisk). So this is like a "full set thus far" - that dalamb can slice up, of course. Also, I am shamelessly doing this, as I am planning to have my character use at least some of it (likely Craft).

 

Appraise

• 0:

• 1: Detect Magic

• 2: Identify (Bard)

• 3:

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Balance

• 0:

• 1: Surefoot (SpC 216), Catsfeet (CM)*

• 2: Balancing Lorecall (SpC 23), Vertigo*

• 3:

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Bluff

• 0:

• 1:

• 2: False Lie (CM 104), Mirror Image*

• 3: Glibness, Suggestion (Bard)

• 4: Voice of the Dragon (SpC 232)*

• 5:

• 6:

Climb

Climb speed 10*(skill ranks/4 rounded down)

• 0:

• 1: Climbing Tree (CM), Surefoot (SpC 216), Catsfeet (CM)*, Climb Walls (SpC 47)*

• 2: Spider Climb

• 3:

• 4:

• 5: Tree Stride

• 6:

Concentration

• 0:

• 1:

• 2:

• 3:

• 4:

• 5: Aiming at the Target (SpC 96)*

• 6: Finding the Center (CArc 106, usually 8th level)*

Craft

(only for the kind of thing you can craft)

• 0: Mending, Caltrops*, Repair Minor Damage*

• 1: Unseen Servant, Repair Light Damage*

• 2: Make Whole, Wood Shape (requires craft: woodworking), Warp Wood (requires woodworking)*, Repair Moderate Damage*

• 3: Stone Shape (requires craft: stoneworking), Repair Serious Damage*

• 4: Minor Creation, Wall of Stone (requires stoneworking)*, Repair Critical Damage*, Leomund's Secure Shelter*

• 5: Fabricate, Major Creation, Leomund's Secret Chest*

• 6: Adamantine Wings (CM 95, requires metalworking, normally 7th level)*, Simulacrum*, Leomund's Hidden Lodge*, Wall of Gears (SpC 233)*

Decipher Script

• 0:

• 1: Comprehend Languages (written text only), Secret Signs (CArc 121)*, Scholar's Touch (RoD)*

• 2:

• 3: Secret Page

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Diplomacy

• 0: Guidance*, Message*

• 1: Charm Person, Remove Fear

• 2: Good Hope

• 3: Charm Monster (Bard)

• 4:

• 5: Mass Suggestion (Bard)

• 6: Mass Charm Monster (Bard), Planar Ally (requires Knowledge (planes))

Disable Device

• 0: Guidance*

• 1: Golem Strike (SpC 106), Create Trap (RoD)*

• 2: Shatter, Leomund's Trap*

• 3: Rusting Grasp (PHB 273)

• 4:

• 5:

• 6: Disintegrate

Disguise

• 0: Minor Disguise (SpC)

• 1: Disguise Self

• 2: Alter Self, Deceptive Facade (CM

• 3:

• 4: Polymorph (self only), Disguise Ship (Storm)*

• 5: Seeming

• 6: Animal Shapes (normally 8th level)

Escape Artist

• 0: Message, Open/Close*

• 1: Expeditious Retreat, Animate Rope, Pass Without Trace*

• 2: Blink (without “etherial plane” fluff), Blur (self only)

• 3: Knight's Move (SpC 129)*

• 4: Freedom of Movement (self only)

• 5: Teleport*

• 6:

Forgery

• 0: Arcane Mark, Read Magic*

• 1: Erase, Comprehend Languages*

• 2: Secret Page

• 3: Sepia Snake Sigil*

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Gather Information: none yet

• 0:

• 1:

• 2:

• 3:

• 4: Lay of the Land (Bard)*

• 5:

• 6:

Handle Animal

• 0:

• 1: Calm Animals, Hide From Animals, Speak With Animals (Druid), Enrage Animal (SpC 82)

• 2: Animal Messenger (Bard), Animal Trance

• 3: Dominate Animal

• 4:

• 5: Animal Growth

• 6:

Heal

• 0: Detect Poison, Stabilize

• 1: Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch*

• 2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis, Status, Lesser Restoration*

• 3: Cure Serious Wounds. Remove Blindness / Deafness, Remove Disease

• 4: Cure Critical Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Restoration*

• 5: Mass Cure Light Wounds

• 6: Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds

Hide

• 0:

• 1: Reduce Person, Camouflage (SpC 43)*, Pass Without Trace*

• 2: Invisibility (self only), Darkness*

• 3: Nondetection, Pall of Twilight (CM 113)*

• 4: Greater Invisibility (self only)

• 5:

• 6:

Intimidate

• 0:

• 1: Cause Fear, Command

• 2: Scare, Divine Presence (CC 119)*, Towering Oak (SpC 221)*

• 3: Fear (Bard), Otto's Imperative Ambulation (CM)

• 4: Voice of the Dragon (SpC 232)*

• 5:

• 6: Freezing Glance (Frost)*, Righteous Glare (BoED, usually 7th level)

Jump

(all are currently self only)

• 0:

• 1: Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump

• 2: Levitate, Heart of Air (CM 106)*

• 3: Fly

• 4:

• 5: Dimension Jumper (CM 102)*

• 6:

Knowledge

• 0: Guidance*, Know Direction*

• 1: Identify, Guided Path (CM 106)*, Scholar's Touch (RoD)*

• 2:

• 3: Lore of the Gods (requires Knowledge (religion)), Scrying (Bard)*

• 4: Legend lore (Bard), Detect Scrying*, Lay of the Land (Bard)*

• 5:

• 6: Planar Ally (requires Knowledge (planes))

Listen

• 0: Message, Ghost Sound*, Silent Portal (SpC 190)*, Songbird (SpC 195)*

• 1: Sending, Alarm*, Death's Call (CM 101)*, Amplify (SpC 10)*

• 2: Cacophonous Alarm (CM)*, Deafening Blast (CM)*, Painful Echoes (CM 112)*

• 3: Clairaudience (paired with Clairvoyance if both are available)

• 4: Interminable Echo (CM 108)*, Resounding Thunder (CM 115)*, Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (CM 122)*

• 5: Discordant Malediction (CM 102)*

• 6: Word of Recall

Move Silently

• 0: Silent Portal (SpC 190)*

• 1: Pass Without Trace (centered on self)*, Catsfeet (CM)*

• 2: Silence (centered on self)

• 3:

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Open Lock

• 0: Open / Close

• 1: Hold Portal,* Alarm*, Armor Lock (CS 95)*, Instant Locksmith (SpC 124)*

• 2: Arcane Lock, Knock

• 3:

• 4: Dimensional Anchor*

• 5: Leomund's Secret Chest*, Telepathy Block (BoED 109)*

• 6: Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion (usually 7th level)*

Perform

• 0: Lullaby (with song or any instrument capable of being played quietly), Summon Instrument (any in which you are trained), Songbird (SpC 195)*

• 1: Charm Person

• 2: Enthrall (using trained Perform skill)

• 3: Rainbow Blast (SpC 165)*

• 4: Rainbow Pattern

• 5: Dancing Blade (PHB II), Otto's Resistable Dance

• 6:

Profession

• 0: Guidance*, Prestidigitation*

• 1: Unseen Servant*, Surefoot (SpC 216, any physical activity profession like sailor)*, Charm Animal (farmer, animal doctor/trainer, driver)*

• 2: Animate Rope (sailor, cowboy, rope-user), Enthrall (any public facing profession, like politician)*

• 3: Detect Ship (sailor) (Storm)*, Create Food and Water (farmer)*

• 4: Wall of Salt (cook) (Sand)*

• 5:

• 6:

Ride

• 0:

• 1: Mount, Golden Barding (SpC 106), Enrage Animal (SpC 82), Traveler's Mount (CD)

• 2: Lion's Charge (SpC 133)

• 3: Phantom Steed, Spiritual Chariot (SpC 202)

• 4: Thunderlance (SpC 220), Regal Procession (SpC 172, usually 3rd level)*

• 5: Animal Growth

• 6: Cloud Chariot (CArc 100, but normally a level 8 spell...)

Search

• 0: Detect Magic*

• 1: Detect Secret Doors, Detect Snares and Pits

• 2: Find Traps, Locate Object

• 3: Treasure Scent (SpC 223)*

• 4: Locate Creature*

• 5:

• 6: Find the Path*

Sense Motive

• 0:

• 1: Detect (Chaos, Evil, Good, Law)

• 2: Detect Thoughts, False Lies (CM)

• 3: Enduring Scrutiny (CM 103)

• 4: Detect Lies (Clr)

• 5:

• 6:

Sleight Of Hand

• 0: Prestidigitation, Mage Hand

• 1: Greater Mage Hand, Bigby's Tripping Hand (PHB II)*

• 2: Bigby's Interposing Hand, Bigby's Striking Fist (PHB II)*

• 3:

• 4: Grasping Wall (CS, usually 3rd level)*

• 5:

• 6:

Speak Language

• 0: Message*, Guidance*

• 1: Comprehend Languages, Sending*, Distort Speech (CAdv), Power Word: Fatigue (RoD), Power Word: Pain (RoD)*, Ventriloquism*, Magic Mouth (Bard)*

• 2: Tongues (Bard), Power Word: Sicken (RoD)*, Bothersome Babble (CM 97)

• 3: Speak with Animals (Bard),* Speak with the Dead*, Speechlink (CAdv), Power Word: Deafen (RoD)*, Power Word: Maladroit (RoD)*, Power Word: Weaken (RoD)*

• 4: Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (CM 122)*, Speak with Plants*, Power Word: Distract (RoD)

• 5: Power Word: Disable (RoD), Voice of the Dragon (SpC 232)*

• 6: Power Word: Nauseate (RoD)*, Holy Word (usually level 7)*, Word of Recall

Spellcraft

Same list (currently) as Use Magic Device

• 0: Detect Magic, Read Magic

• 1: Identify (Bard)

• 2:

• 3: Arcane Sight, Dispel Magic, Tenacious Dispelling (CM 119)*

• 4: Stifle Spell (PHB II), Otiluke's Suppressing Field (CM 112)*

• 5: Wall of Dispel Magic (SpC 233)

• 6: Analyze Dweomer

Spot

• 0:

• 1: Detect Secret Doors, Detect Snares and Pits, Deathwatch*

• 2: See Invisibility (Sor/Wiz)

• 3: Clairvoyance (paired with Clairaudience if both are available), Darkvision (Ranger)

• 4: Sniper's Eye (SpC 193)*

• 5: Prying Eyes, True Seeing, Deathsight (CM)*

• 6: Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant (CM 102, normally 8th level)*

Survival

• 0: Create Water (Druid), Goodberry, Know Direction, Purify Food and Drink

• 1: Endure Elements, Pass Without Trace

• 2:

• 3: Create Food and Water, Tiny Hut

• 4: Commune With Nature (Ranger), Locate Creature, Secure Shelter

• 5:

• 6: Find The Path

Swim

Swim speed 10*(skill ranks/4 rounded down)

• 0: Create Water*

• 1: Locate Water (Sand)*

• 2: Swim (SpC 217), Fins to Feet*, Sink (SpC 190)*

• 3: Water Breathing (self only), Water Walk (self only), Heart of Water (CM)*, Remove Nausea*

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

Tumble

• 0:

• 1: Expeditious Retreat, Surefoot (SpC 216), Accelerated Movement (SpC 7)*, Feather Fall*

• 2: Vertigo*

• 3: Knight's Move, Remove Nausea*

• 4:

• 5:

• 6: Reverse Gravity*

Use Magic Device

Same list (currently) as Spellcraft

• 0: Detect Magic, Read Magic

• 1: Identify (Bard)

• 2:

• 3: Arcane Sight

• 4:

• 5:

• 6: Analyze Dweomer

Use Rope

• 0:

• 1: Animate Rope

• 2: Rope Trick

• 3: Snare (PHB 280)

• 4:

• 5:

• 6:

 

* Asterisk means suggested newly, after March 1.

I'll keep adding to this, returning to edit this post, if there's no objection.

Edited March 5 by Sundust (see edit history)