Character creation discussion

[Steel Warrior]

18 minutes ago, Lord Foul said:

But I thought you are a cat. That sounds exactly like what a cat would do. 😉

 

lol Nah, I just randomly knock stuff off the Captain's desk and leave dead rats in her bed as presents, or a fish in her drawers.

Edited March 12 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[dalamb]

10 hours ago, Avaday Daydream said:

Does that include Dragon Turtles? The notorious ship-capsizing ones?

Type: Huge Dragon. So, none that anybody knows about.

[dalamb]

8 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

@dalamb So, my character wouldn't own a Hand of the Mage, because he feels it would be disrespectful to elves.

Could he have an Amulet of Mighty Fists + Hand of the Mage (using braided hair from an elven wizard/sorcerer?) 1.5 the cost to add the effects to an existing item. (neck slot)

Standard MIC and DMG magic creation rules apply, so, just figure the cost as in the rules (which I trust you to manage without my looking it up).

[TheFred]

15 hours ago, Thramzorean said:

I was pondering that. Sort of torn between it being the 'right' thing to do for the rules of war vs. it being largely redundant since you're pretty much never going to kill anyone anyway. Well anyone you should be outright fighting.

Right, ironically something like Subduing Strike is kinda pointless here because now you deal 50% nonlethal anyway. Unless you deal really big damage in a single hit, you’re not likely to kill anyone by accident.

As it stands right now, this applies to all damage - so even the “Weapons of Wanton Destruction” probably won’t be killing anyone.

Actually, a question for dalamb: the rules on those seem slightly contradictory. I can use these spells against structures holding two or fewer people (or… any number of non-combatants? 🤨) or structures which are protecting people from dying? This means I can sink a ship with such a spell but only if it will kill people? But I’m not allowed to kill people directly with the spells?

[Steel Warrior]

14 minutes ago, TheFred said:

Right, ironically something like Subduing Strike is kinda pointless here because now you deal 50% nonlethal anyway. Unless you deal really big damage in a single hit, you’re not likely to kill anyone by accident.

As it stands right now, this applies to all damage - so even the “Weapons of Wanton Destruction” probably won’t be killing anyone.

Actually, a question for dalamb: the rules on those seem slightly contradictory. I can use these spells against structures holding two or fewer people (or… any number of non-combatants? 🤨) or structures which are protecting people from dying? This means I can sink a ship with such a spell but only if it will kill people? But I’m not allowed to kill people directly with the spells?

Oh? I would hope, taking Subduing Strike should allow full subdual damage.
 

Subduing Strike ( Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 46)

[Fighter Bonus Feat, General]

You are adept at striking to deal nonlethal damage even with normal weapons.

Benefit: You can use any melee weapon to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty on your attack roll. If you are a rogue, you can deal nonlethal damage with your sneak attack even if you are using a normal melee weapon. This feat does not allow you to deal nonlethal damage with ranged weapons.

Guessing there's a private app in here somewhere, since it's showing something unread that I cannot see lol.

Edited March 12 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Sundust]

34 minutes ago, TheFred said:

Right, ironically something like Subduing Strike is kinda pointless here because now you deal 50% nonlethal anyway. Unless you deal really big damage in a single hit, you’re not likely to kill anyone by accident.

As it stands right now, this applies to all damage - so even the “Weapons of Wanton Destruction” probably won’t be killing anyone.

Actually, a question for dalamb: the rules on those seem slightly contradictory. I can use these spells against structures holding two or fewer people (or… any number of non-combatants? 🤨) or structures which are protecting people from dying? This means I can sink a ship with such a spell but only if it will kill people? But I’m not allowed to kill people directly with the spells?

Zero is fewer than two, so you could target an empty ship just fine - as I see it, at least.

[Sundust]

24 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

Oh? I would hope, taking Subduing Strike should allow full subdual damage.
 

Subduing Strike ( Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 46)

[Fighter Bonus Feat, General]

You are adept at striking to deal nonlethal damage even with normal weapons.

Benefit: You can use any melee weapon to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty on your attack roll. If you are a rogue, you can deal nonlethal damage with your sneak attack even if you are using a normal melee weapon. This feat does not allow you to deal nonlethal damage with ranged weapons.

Guessing there's a private app in here somewhere, since it's showing something unread that I cannot see lol.

There's also Merciful Strike at page 79 of Complete Scoundrel.

There's a feat for nonlethal spells, too, but it's from an unapproved source.

There are also nonlethal weapons like the whip and sap, if you want to deal nonlethal damage with a weapon without using a feat.

[Steel Warrior]

4 minutes ago, Sundust said:

There's also Merciful Strike at page 79 of Complete Scoundrel.

There's a feat for nonlethal spells, too, but it's from an unapproved source.

There are also nonlethal weapons like the whip and sap, if you want to deal nonlethal damage with a weapon without using a feat.

Complete scoundrel was added I thought.

Complete series (Adventurer, Arcane, Champion, Divine, Mage, Scoundrel, Warrior)
Oh wait, you meant the feat for non lethal spells

Edited March 12 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Sundust]

3 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

Complete scoundrel was added I thought.

Yeah, that's what I meant. The feat for spells is Subdual Substitution, from p.42 of Tome and Blood: A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers.

Edited March 12 by Sundust (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

2 minutes ago, Sundust said:

Yes, it's added. The unapproved source to which I was referring for nonlethal spells is Tome and Blood: A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers. (Subdual Substitution, p. 42.)

Subdual Substitution metamagic feat, requires another metamagic feat though, and 5 ranks in arcana

Edited March 12 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Sundust]

Lol we keep Ninja'ing each other

Yes, and yes :)

[Steel Warrior]

1 minute ago, Sundust said:

Lol we keep Ninja'ing each other

Yes, and yes :)

Maybe not, apparently I neglected to see the main point.

Feats

Deities can obtain the feats described here, in addition to any standard feats.

ARE YOU A GOD?

[TheFred]

44 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

Oh? I would hope, taking Subduing Strike should allow full subdual damage.

I’m sure it would, but what use is that? Someone’s unconscious if they’re on half health with as much no lethal, just the same as if all the damage you’d dealt was nonlethal. A bit of lethal damage isn’t usually fatal.

20 minutes ago, Sundust said:

Zero is fewer than two, so you could target an empty ship just fine - as I see it, at least.

Yes I’m pretty certain that’s correct, my confusion is that the next bit appears to say you can target a structure containing more than two people (but possibly only if it’s protecting them from death, which is the opposite of what I would expect).

[Sundust]

1 hour ago, TheFred said:

I’m sure it would, but what use is that? Someone’s unconscious if they’re on half health with as much no lethal, just the same as if all the damage you’d dealt was nonlethal. A bit of lethal damage isn’t usually fatal.

Yes I’m pretty certain that’s correct, my confusion is that the next bit appears to say you can target a structure containing more than two people (but possibly only if it’s protecting them from death, which is the opposite of what I would expect).

Gonna post the rule here, so I needn't shuffle between threads as much:

1. Weapons of Wanton Destruction

   1. Weapons of wanton destruction shall include, but not be limited to, the spells known as Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cloudkill, and closely similar effects under different names.

   2. Weapons of Wanton Destruction may be targeted only at

      1. structures known not to harbour more than two Persons, said persons reasonably believed to be combatants.

      2. structures such as the walls of a fortified location, or the hull of a ship, that under the circumstances can be reasonably believed to be effective in protecting nearby Persons from death.

   3. No Person shall intentionally shield any legitimate military target with noncombatants.

Regarding ii, I read it as allowing, for example, the following:

• Blasting through a hull to allow trapped sailors to escape a sinking ship, preventing drowning (even if you do not reasonably believe that there are fewer than two lives on the other side of the hull or otherwise endangered by your act)
• Bringing down a hut that houses 3 people about to bombard a whole crowd to smithereens
• Puncturing a hole in a manned dam to wash out disease-infected swarms eating up the dam town
• Knocking off-course a fully-crewed ship about to ram a port marketplace at 45 knots

You are using a WWD to blast away, and knowingly or at least potentially killing more than two, but all to protect life (and, in these examples, to protect many lives).

[joran1313]

4 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

ARE YOU A GOD?

Yes! The answer is yes!

I was asked that once. It didn't go well for me or them. They got blasted back to what ever plane they came from and I got covered in marshmallow.