Best systems for new GMs

[cailano]

Hi all. I'm thinking about posting a guide for new GMs that would focus on the specifics of running games in PbP using Baldr.

I'd like to recommend a handful of systems as "new player friendly."

Here is how I'm thinking of breaking it down:

Tier 1
These are the gold standard. The rules are freely available online, the game is actively maintained, and there are excellent adventure modules available for aspiring GMs to use. Examples: Pathfinder 1E and 2E, Dungeons & Dragons 5E, and Basic Fantasy.

Tier 2

These games are also good choices, but maybe they only have a subset of their rules available, or there aren't a lot of good adventures published for them. Examples: Dungeon Crawl Classics, Worlds Without Number, Castles and Crusades.

Tier 3

These games do not have any version of their rules available for free, so you'll need players to own them already. The good news is that a lot of people might have them. Examples: HERO system, TSR versions of D&D, and Vampire the Masquerade.

Tier 4

These games do not have a large player base, and the rules are not freely available. Many out-of-print systems will fall in this tier. Example: Star Frontiers, Marvel Multiverse RPG.

Do you have a system that you'd like me to include in the guide? If so, post it along with the tier you feel it should fall into and a link to any free (and legally available) rules. 

 

 

[Vladim]

I'm not sure if the tier-based ranking is necessary or even useful; it will probably reflect the bias of the person making the ranking, as some parameters (e.g. 'excellent modules' or popularity) are highly subjective or difficult to quantify. There are other issues too. For example, you say 5e has the rules freely available online, but I don't think that's true for all the material (a bunch of character options are published in books that are not available for free, and I think the SRD is limited).

But I don't want to be too negative. I think the list is useful, but it would be better if there was only objective information and links (e.g. to legally available rules, SRDs, adventure resources etc.) and limited amount of opinion about things like popularity (you could always link the Analytics page for that but too much opining may be unnecessary). Some summary on game genres and rules complexity (again subjective, so better to have a description than a rating) could also be useful.

Basically,  don't think we need the tiers system and I really-really dislike it, but maybe that's just me 🙂

[cailano]

Maybe Tiers isn't the right name, or else I could put a disclaimer on it to stste that I wasn't saying about the quality of the game itself.

Or, I guess I could eliminate the negative entirely and just suggest a list of games that have freely accessible rules and a lot of adventures to run.

Regardless, I'd still love to hear about games that would make the list.

[Vladim]

4 minutes ago, cailano said:

Or, I guess I could eliminate the negative entirely and just suggest a list of games that have freely accessible rules and a lot of adventures to run.

Ironsworn is completely free and completely awesome. It doesn't have published adventures, but the whole notion of published scenarios is antithetical to its design (it's very much a 'play to find out' game). Here's the link: Ironsworn - Tabletop Roleplaying Games (ironswornrpg.com)

Edit: I think Fate is free as well, and a good system.

[eltorin]

I'm typically insterested in Tier 4 games, according to this list, this probably explains the low/almost non-existent interest I see in my ads/posts.

Btw, I think you meant the Marvel Superheroes RPG, the Multiverse is not out yet, though it is a special case, being available so easily as when you search for it, literally the second link brings you there.

[Actana]

In my view popularity and availability do not make for ease of GMing, nor for teaching new people how to GM. It does, however, mean that you'll get a larger playerbase, but little beyond that on its own. Certainly games with more popularity might have more resources surrounding them, but those don't necessarily mean they're good to GM either (indeed, a bevy of "how to GM" articles might indicate that such things are actually needed for the game, meaning that many people think it is harder to pick up as a GM and write articles to help). But GMing guides can easily be system agnostic as well, or if system specific relatively easy to port the advice into other similar systems.

I'm not sure what I'd put up for games that are easy to GM, but I don't think D&D 5e is up there, nor PF1. PF2 maybe given its tighter math and guidelines. Maybe something like Lady Blackbird or Quest. Heck, I managed to get an absolutely riotous and fun game full of roleplaying that still gets quoted years later with a group of people almost entirely new to tabletop games with Pasion de las Pasiones.

I am occasionally hesitant to recommend it, but Dungeon World can be a good starter game, and is often said that it's what people new to the hobby think D&D is like.

 

Ultimately, though, there are too many variables to what is and isn't a good starter game, and depending on what you value the answer is different.

[Vladim]

One thing that I feel could have helped me when I got started would have been picking up a low-prep system. I cut my teeth on Pathfinder 1st edition back when the rules bloat was much less and the SRD was excellent. But even now, I'd rather spend my time and creativity on crafting scenes and stories over filling out an Excel sheet's worth of data for encounter design, or fine-tuning stat blocks, or searching for the right map. D&D and adjacent games may be popular, but they are hardly low-prep; especially the more modern versions, I think. Adventure modules help a bit, but oftentimes the narrative cohesion of those is just awful and makes very little sense, so for folks wanting immersion they just don't cut it without some serious rewriting (and at that point one has to ask themselves why bother running them to begin with).

[hakootoko]

GURPS 4 Lite is free and can be used by itself. It limits player options, of course, but a new GM needs to limit player options or they'll find themselves swamped. In addition GURPS 4 has been in print for nearly 20 years and has an established fanbase.

[Jedaii]

Risus the Anything RPG is about 4 pages long but infinitely versatile and super-easy to play. 

Basic (B/X) D&D is simple to play and can introduce a new group to the world's most popular TTRPG.

The Microscope RPG is simple to play and allows a group to create the setting, historical timelines and characters without a GM or dice.

[cailano]

3 hours ago, Vladim said:

One thing that I feel could have helped me when I got started would have been picking up a low-prep system. I cut my teeth on Pathfinder 1st edition back when the rules bloat was much less and the SRD was excellent. But even now, I'd rather spend my time and creativity on crafting scenes and stories over filling out an Excel sheet's worth of data for encounter design, or fine-tuning stat blocks, or searching for the right map. D&D and adjacent games may be popular, but they are hardly low-prep; especially the more modern versions, I think. Adventure modules help a bit, but oftentimes the narrative cohesion of those is just awful and makes very little sense, so for folks wanting immersion they just don't cut it without some serious rewriting (and at that point one has to ask themselves why bother running them to begin with).

Yeah, I definitely hear that. I've come to the exact same place.

I've been thinking about this whole post, and I'm definitely going to get rid of the Tier idea. Thanks for your feedback on that. I think I'm just going to distill it down to a few systems that might make it easy to find players and which have at least partial rule sets or an SRD online. I'll bring up this point about the benefits of rules-lite systems, but I'll also stress that Pathfinder and 5E have established player bases that might already know the rules well, which mitigates the problem, at least from their perspective.

[cailano]

5 hours ago, Actana said:

...

 

Ultimately, though, there are too many variables to what is and isn't a good starter game, and depending on what you value the answer is different.

Wait... people are different? Who authorized this?

[Jedaii]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:47 PM, Vladim said:

I'm not sure if the tier-based ranking is necessary or even useful; it will probably reflect the bias of the person making the ranking, as some parameters (e.g. 'excellent modules' or popularity) are highly subjective or difficult to quantify. There are other issues too. For example, you say 5e has the rules freely available online, but I don't think that's true for all the material (a bunch of character options are published in books that are not available for free, and I think the SRD is limited).

But I don't want to be too negative. I think the list is useful, but it would be better if there was only objective information and links (e.g. to legally available rules, SRDs, adventure resources etc.) and limited amount of opinion about things like popularity (you could always link the Analytics page for that but too much opining may be unnecessary). Some summary on game genres and rules complexity (again subjective, so better to have a description than a rating) could also be useful.

Basically,  don't think we need the tiers system and I really-really dislike it, but maybe that's just me 🙂

Agreed.

The list is clearly biased by their popularity (at least). Just because 5e is the newest version doesn't mean it's the best version of D&D for a group of new players. Generally, rules-lite games would benefit a group new to TTRPG mechanics because they can focus on role-playing instead of "did I get my sheet right?" D&D/PF are games with a heavy focus on character optimization which most new groups have no real understanding of. So why throw that at them with their introduction to TTRPGs? If someone's just learning how to drive you probably shouldn't put them behind the wheel of a Ferrari - the base-model small car is enough for starters. If 'module availability' is an issue, there's tons of them for simpler systems like B/X that can be found at sites that sell them like DrivethruRPG. Role-playing is a skill MOST people in the hobby don't do very well because the focus has been character optimization for decades. I'd let a new group master RP first, then they can engage optimization if they like.

Just my 2 cents 😏

[cailano]

3 hours ago, Jedaii said:

Agreed.

The list is clearly biased by their popularity (at least). Just because 5e is the newest version doesn't mean it's the best version of D&D for a group of new players. Generally, rules-lite games would benefit a group new to TTRPG mechanics because they can focus on role-playing instead of "did I get my sheet right?" D&D/PF are games with a heavy focus on character optimization which most new groups have no real understanding of. So why throw that at them with their introduction to TTRPGs? If someone's just learning how to drive you probably shouldn't put them behind the wheel of a Ferrari - the base-model small car is enough for starters. If 'module availability' is an issue, there's tons of them for simpler systems like B/X that can be found at sites that sell them like DrivethruRPG. Role-playing is a skill MOST people in the hobby don't do very well because the focus has been character optimization for decades. I'd let a new group master RP first, then they can engage optimization if they like.

Just my 2 cents 😏

Yeah, I've already decided to ditch the Tier idea. Too easily misunderstood.

And you don't have to convince me about older editions of D&D over 5E, I'm an OSR GM. Still, 5E does have a publicly available SRD and many adventure modules for the aspiring Dungeon Master, so I have to put aside my own biases. Also, a lot of players already know how to play 5E, so the complexity of the system becomes a non-factor for them.

[GaryD20]

Here's my 2¢ for what it's worth...

(1) If going strictly by simple mechanics and ease of use and understanding, you can't go wrong with Index Card RPG and Tiny Dungeon. EZD6 also, now that I'm thinking about it. All three are very simple mechanically. Especially Tiny Dungeon. For a new GM these would be very first timer friendly. For new players to, for that matter.

The down side is that there aren't a ton of prewritten adventures out there for them. There's some, but not many.

Index Card has a free Quick Start on DriveThru. Not sure about Tiny Dungeon and EZD6. I'd have to check.

(2) Can I get some love for Tunnels and Trolls on here? Maybe not the best system for a straight up newbie GM, but a GM already with experience as a player in other systems shouldn't have much of a problem. There's a tad bit of math involved but after a combat round or two it'll become second nature. It's pretty easy to pick up. There's a shit ton of solo adventures out there for it. Might have to do a little more digging for GM led adventures but they're out there. Shouldn't be a problem.

A Quick Start or free rules? I'd have to check.

Tunnels and Trolls is the shit. Don't know why this game doesn't get more love than it does.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by GaryD20 (see edit history)

[zeone3000]

I would say it's more based on complexity. Some systems are front-loaded with character creation, mainly point-based or give many options simultaneously, such as spellcasters in most systems. This gets compounded when you create opponents with no enemy compendium to rely on. Or have a lot of subsystems that you have to know to run effectively. Some are as easy as rolling dice and comparing results.