Playing a GMless game

[cailano]

How do you guys feel a solo RPG compares to a solo adventure board game (Gloomhaven, Oathsworn, etc)

 

[Vladim]

3 hours ago, cailano said:

How do you guys feel a solo RPG compares to a solo adventure board game (Gloomhaven, Oathsworn, etc)

Wish I could comment on that, but I've never tried any of those board games. Perhaps others have more experience.

[Actana]

Solo RPGs are their own kind of game, and not like board games. It's the same division between group RPGs and group board games. GMless games are also different and quite well established as a "thing", so to speak. How they implement their rules differs between games of course, but to imply they somehow aren't games feels a bit weird to me.

[Malkavian Grin]

12 hours ago, cailano said:

How do you guys feel a solo RPG compares to a solo adventure board game (Gloomhaven, Oathsworn, etc)

I wish I had experience with these to be able to comment. I've heard of Gloomhaven and recall wanting to play it, but it's like $70 or something ridiculous.

Honestly, I think the difference is (likely) that the board game versions focus more on the mechanics involved with the board, and the RPGs focus more on how you tell your story and the people involved therein.

[cailano]

1 hour ago, Malkavian Grin said:

I wish I had experience with these to be able to comment. I've heard of Gloomhaven and recall wanting to play it, but it's like $70 or something ridiculous.

Honestly, I think the difference is (likely) that the board game versions focus more on the mechanics involved with the board, and the RPGs focus more on how you tell your story and the people involved therein.

I think that's the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around. If I want to tell a story, I can just do that. No mechanics are necessary.

If I want to play a solo game with interesting mechanics, modern board games are great at that.

I guess the point would be to experience a procedurally generated story?

It might just be something I have to try for myself. I do have a copy of the Mythic GM Emulator... maybe I'll break out my old BECMI Red box and give it a try.

[Malkavian Grin]

Sure, you could just tell a story, but for some of us that just isn't enough. It takes a LOT of prep work to fully develop a bunch of believable characters and extensive knowledge of the world you drop them into (which will likely also be completely designed by the author). Many of us simply don't have that kind of time nor drive.

For me, I play solo because I like the telling of a good story, but I don't have the desire to prep all of that ahead of time. Especially if I'm not guaranteed to have anyone else read it! It would likely take me 10+ years to become an "established" writer--and another 10 to get any kind of recognition. If I instead play a game in order to generate the story, I'll get something that's "close enough" to a good story without all the downfalls. Sure, it still may only grace my eyes, but I didn't waste multiple decades on hoping.

Additionally, solo play lets you test out some wacky (barbarian sorcerer) or over-used (viking warrior, anyone?) characters without annoying other people or looking like a talentless hack.

10 minutes ago, cailano said:

I guess the point would be to experience a procedurally generated story?

This is also quite appealing. The chaos factor that goes into a story like this is exciting for me. Just like when you are playing a card game and you draw some card that changes your entire mindset. (You being a fan of DCC, I would think this chaos would have appeal to you)

Not only that, but as you play, most Solo games encourage you to embrace that chaos. Add to it, make it mean something. These are those wonderful emergent details that, let's be honest, you might never think about to use in writing a novel!

10 minutes ago, cailano said:

It might just be something I have to try for myself. I do have a copy of the Mythic GM Emulator... maybe I'll break out my old BECMI Red box and give it a try.

I highly recommend Mythic GME!

Just be fair on how likely you believe certain things to be, don't over-punish yourself, and be willing to reroll/ignore a result if nothing comes to you right at first.

Honestly, the Event Meaning: Action + Subject tables have been awesome and I use them outside of solo play for inspiration. "Why is the dragon in cahoots with the goodly king? One roll might say Destroy Paranoia but another might say Abandon Food. It's up to you, but those already give two very different motivations and will tell different stories.

Also, be willing to scale down the amount of monsters you face / level yourself up "unfairly" if you use systems designed for multiple players. Otherwise... you're gonna get steamrolled!

Sorry for the wall of text!!! (I have a great many thoughts about solo play)

[Vladim]

4 hours ago, cailano said:

I think that's the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around. If I want to tell a story, I can just do that. No mechanics are necessary.

If I want to play a solo game with interesting mechanics, modern board games are great at that.

I guess the point would be to experience a procedurally generated story?

It might just be something I have to try for myself. I do have a copy of the Mythic GM Emulator... maybe I'll break out my old BECMI Red box and give it a try.

For solo play, I think they're better suited to explore a premise (for example, an opening premise; or you can start by a central idea and explore its ramifications). Less so to tell a story; you have to cede quite a bit of narrative authority to generate a game that still has the potential to surprise you, though that will probably vary based on your preferences.

Without knowing much about solo adventure board games, my guess is that the differences lie in structures and the types of stories you can tell. A good solo RPG should ideally support multiple types of stories (not just action/adventure) and have structures that are flexible and generalizable enough to be used under a variety of situations.

[cailano]

4 hours ago, Malkavian Grin said:

 

I highly recommend Mythic GME!

 

Also, be willing to scale down the amount of monsters you face / level yourself up "unfairly" if you use systems designed for multiple players. Otherwise... you're gonna get steamrolled!

Sorry for the wall of text!!! (I have a great many thoughts about solo play)

I'd probably create a small party of adventurers, since that is more tactically interesting. Basic D&D definitely wasn't made for solo characters!

I appreciated your wall of text, you brought up some really interesting points!

 

[Malkavian Grin]

8 minutes ago, cailano said:

I'd probably create a small party of adventurers, since that is more tactically interesting. Basic D&D definitely wasn't made for solo characters!

I appreciated your wall of text, you brought up some really interesting points!

I'm happy you found it useful :)

The book "DM Yourself" was my first foray into solo play. It focuses more on D&D play than anything else. As such, it suggests you make a "main character" and a single "companion" so that you don't become overwhelmed. Too many voices can be a big pitfall because you end up with indecision. Two characters is enough to play devil's advocate against yourself, but not to the point of having a philosophical debate that takes 20 minutes. ALSO you don't end up at a snail's pace in combat trying to figure out action economy! (though that might be less of an issue in simpler D&D editions)

Additionally, it suggests setting both characters 1 level higher than the module you are running for (or general guidance of suggested level).

If you try it out, let us know how it goes!

[cailano]

Right now, I'm just reading through MGME. It's got some great ideas in it. Since I'm primarily a GM my first impulse it to use it to run a sandbox game. I'm trying to stay focused on the player angle, for now.

[Malkavian Grin]

1 hour ago, cailano said:

my first impulse it to use it to run a sandbox game.

Now you're thinking with portals!

Seriously, I feel like using these mechanics have turned me into a better, more adaptable GM.

[cailano]

My players taught me to be adaptable a long time ago, haha.

But what I like about MGME is that it forces you to make decisions based on something other than your own personal biases and experiences. In an ideal world, that could make the game less predictable. As you've noted, I'm all about the chaos!

[Malkavian Grin]

Yeah... once someone kills a monologuing villain mid-speech, you learn to start thinking how to fix stuff on the fly. And also not monologue XD

A lot of people seem to not realize that solo gaming is all about inspiring you without forcing your hand (too much). You are free to ignore or reroll, but it's better to try and make whatever you rolled fit the scene. It's all about the narrative and how it gets affected. It really does make things less predictable.

I equate those Action + Subject rolls to being like "Take this song title and make it mean something for your scene" basically. I use a lot of music for inspiration.

[Vladim]

13 hours ago, cailano said:

Right now, I'm just reading through MGME. It's got some great ideas in it. Since I'm primarily a GM my first impulse it to use it to run a sandbox game. I'm trying to stay focused on the player angle, for now.

I've been getting into Forbidden Lands recently (but not solo). The system looks neat: very OSR and built for sandbox/hexcrawling. I *think* it has a solo mode that's been recently released.

[cailano]

So, I've been running myself through a solo game over the last week. I decided to use the old Red Box rules from BECMI Basic D&D. That was my first RPG system, and I've always had a fondness for it.

Going with Malkavian's recommendation, I refrained from making a group and instead rolled up two first-level PCs. I got a fighter and a cleric and decided they would be a brother and sister team.

I'm using the Mythic GME for all the decision-making in the game. I'm letting the setting build itself as I go.

It's been fun! My PCs have managed to find work, get in over their heads, and get waylaid by goblins en route to their first adventure.