Palladium games

[PerilousAdventures]

I did play Palladium games a decent bit, it was fun for what it was. But nowadays, I simply have other systems that work and require less prep for gonzo adventures.

[LargestFriend]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:04 PM, Snicker said:

I wonder how much of this poorly-aged material will make it into the redux version of TMNT that was recently kickstarted. While I've never gotten any sense of genuine hatred or bias from any Palladium product, even the newer books will occasionally ambush me with something that makes me say "uh-oh, you really can't say that anymore."

Yeah my thoughts exactly lol. Also wow I did not know they were making a new TMNT game, that's actually very exciting!

[MrAndrewJ]

The worst of the poorly aged material didn't even survive the original game's lifeline. Some early books were published with that material. Many of those early printings were shipped with a sticker covering the questionable material. Printings after the books with the stickers completely excluded that material. The ink wasn't even wasted on it.

The copy of the book I bought around '93 or '94 doesn't even have that material.

I doubt they would put it back, considering it was even considered "too far" thirty years ago.

Edited December 27, 2023 by MrAndrewJ
typo -- the word material appeared twice in a row (see edit history)

[leons1701]

There was never a reason for it to be included in the first place, it was just another lazy cut and paste from earlier books (which also didn't need it, but Siembieda is apparently one of those gamers who sometimes wants excuses to do things you really, really shouldn't even in a game). But there was a major difference between putting it in something obscure and ostensibly adult like Rifts or Heroes Unlimited and putting it in an RPG based on what was one of THE definitive kids properties of the late 80's, early 90's era. To be fair, when Palladium got the license it was still a black and white comic for teens and adults and while it was probably the leading success story of the mid 80's black and white indy comic boom, outside the sort of people who hung out in comic shops (like me) it was almost completely unknown until 1987 (two years after the rpg was published) when the toys and animated series debuted. Which of course is when things went sideways for Palladium because when kids started getting ahold of the RPG, so did their parents and whatever you think about "too far" in general, it was DEFINITELY too far for kids material.

[Snicker]

9 hours ago, LargestFriend said:

Yeah my thoughts exactly lol. Also wow I did not know they were making a new TMNT game, that's actually very exciting!

Don't get your hopes up. It's a "redux" edition, not a new game. According to the Kickstarter page, it'll include colour art, visual and typo cleanup, rule clarifications, and "new content", which (explained elsewhere, in Palladium fashion) seems to consist of minor bennies like new comics and rules for new mutant animals. It's a remaster, not a new version; I'll be surprised if they even bring the combat rules or Hand to Hand skills in line with their modern books.

4 hours ago, MrAndrewJ said:

The worst of the poorly aged material didn't even survive the original game's lifeline. Some early books were published with that material. Many of those early printings were shipped with a sticker covering the questionable material. Printings after the books with the stickers completely excluded that material. The ink wasn't even wasted on it.

The copy of the book I bought around '93 or '94 doesn't even have that material.

I doubt they would put it back, considering it was even considered "too far" thirty years ago.

 

1 hour ago, leons1701 said:

There was never a reason for it to be included in the first place, it was just another lazy cut and paste from earlier books (which also didn't need it, but Siembieda is apparently one of those gamers who sometimes wants excuses to do things you really, really shouldn't even in a game). But there was a major difference between putting it in something obscure and ostensibly adult like Rifts or Heroes Unlimited and putting it in an RPG based on what was one of THE definitive kids properties of the late 80's, early 90's era. To be fair, when Palladium got the license it was still a black and white comic for teens and adults and while it was probably the leading success story of the mid 80's black and white indy comic boom, outside the sort of people who hung out in comic shops (like me) it was almost completely unknown until 1987 (two years after the rpg was published) when the toys and animated series debuted. Which of course is when things went sideways for Palladium because when kids started getting ahold of the RPG, so did their parents and whatever you think about "too far" in general, it was DEFINITELY too far for kids material.

I actually never read the original TMNT books (only paged through a friend's copy to create some mutant animals), so I don't know what controversial material was in those, though I've heard of some poorly chosen insanity rules. I'm referring to entirely other elements that still creep into newer books. I remember reading my copy of Beyond the Supernatural 2nd Edition and finding an incidental statement that women will shriek and jump on a chair when they see a mouse, and thinking "hmm, you really can't say things like that anymore." That was published in the 2000s - though to be fair, knowing Palladium, that content was probably copied directly from the original version published in the 80s.

[leons1701]

Oh, it was totally the insanity rules. Included in a rather random (even for Pallium) list of odd mental disorders like hating music, going permanently berserk, or becoming a psychiatrist was a list of "sexual deviancies". Besides the whole issue of just what exactly is bestiality in a game where you play mutant animals, it just had a ridiculous ick factor, was already years out of date in 1985 and appealed only to the sort of people who derived high amusement from the Cursed Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity in D&D.

Anyhow, that's far from the only time Palladium has been behind the times or controversial but it's far and away the best known for pretty obvious reasons. (Actually, the inclusion of detailed drug and alcohol rules on the pages right after the insanity charts was pretty weird for a kids game too).

As to the mouse thing, of course it was copied from the first edition, Palladium revises the absolute minimum amount possible when making a new edition, mostly they just add more stuff. But it's not like you could really say that in the 80's either, at least not in public.

[TheDude2371]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:20 AM, leons1701 said:

Oh, it was totally the insanity rules. Included in a rather random (even for Pallium) list of odd mental disorders like hating music, going permanently berserk, or becoming a psychiatrist was a list of "sexual deviancies". Besides the whole issue of just what exactly is bestiality in a game where you play mutant animals, it just had a ridiculous ick factor, was already years out of date in 1985 and appealed only to the sort of people who derived high amusement from the Cursed Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity in D&D.

Anyhow, that's far from the only time Palladium has been behind the times or controversial but it's far and away the best known for pretty obvious reasons. (Actually, the inclusion of detailed drug and alcohol rules on the pages right after the insanity charts was pretty weird for a kids game too).

As to the mouse thing, of course it was copied from the first edition, Palladium revises the absolute minimum amount possible when making a new edition, mostly they just add more stuff. But it's not like you could really say that in the 80's either, at least not in public.

When I ran Beyond the Supernatural, I used my own Sanity rules, stolen cultivated from Call of Cthulhu, which I still think has the best SAN rules out there. If I were to run BtS today, I may merge the original and revised games into CoC and be done with it. Love the concept behind BtS and all, but it's the system itself I have issues with, even to this day. (Actually, I might even bring some elements from FATE/Dresden Files into it, as I love the "concept" systems... and elements from a few other games.)