OOC Chat

[luctius]

50 minutes ago, DarthAnthrax said:

Can we actually use Demo Charges? I totally agree they would be useful, but from the rules it seems you need the Demolitions skill to use them, and I can´t see a way for anyone to have that at Rank 1.

Right. I forgot about that...

[Harding]

1 hour ago, DarthAnthrax said:

Ah, that changes a lot :)

I would still like someone to clarify my questions regarding Astartes Combat Webbing, so I know if I have to requisition a lot of pouches or none at all

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astartes_Combat_Webbing

There is a complete explaination of the combat webbing here accroding to the lore. Basically, it come with everything mentionned there, plus you can fasten more pouches/clips on it. Normally, pouches/holsters/blade sheath doesnt cost requisitions - they come with the item wheb you spend requisition on them. Webbing is just an item organizer, to optimize placement and carry more than what the normal belts/strap would allow a marine (+ some free items like medicae pouch and vox)

Edited May 1 by Harding (see edit history)

[Harding]

Okay, here Vulkar requisitions:

Combitool (15)

Auspex (12)

Melta bomb (25)

Multikey (15)

Astartes combat webbing (3)

Astartes flamer (10)

Total: 80 flush

Edited May 1 by Harding (see edit history)

[DarthAnthrax]

8 hours ago, Harding said:

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astartes_Combat_Webbing

There is a complete explaination of the combat webbing here accroding to the lore. Basically, it come with everything mentionned there, plus you can fasten more pouches/clips on it. Normally, pouches/holsters/blade sheath doesnt cost requisitions - they come with the item wheb you spend requisition on them. Webbing is just an item organizer, to optimize placement and carry more than what the normal belts/strap would allow a marine (+ some free items like medicae pouch and vox)

I´m feeling really dense now, but I guess it´s the emphasized part that confuses me, because I can´t find anywhere what those "normal" limits are. And also, if the webbing is just the place to add all the pouches, and stuff you requisition already comes with pouches...why is this an item that you can requisition in the first place and not standard issue? If it is an item that everyone needs...

...and if it is not, then what is the advantage? I get what you are saying it does, but from what I can see, it offers no such advantage at all.

 

I really think (and hope) I am missing something here, as this feels like it shouldn´t be this complicated to get...

[Harding]

The limit is how armor armors are designed. At most, they are outfitted with a leather belt and/or bandolier for additional equipment, tools and clips carried because the way they are made. There is no explanation about it really in the book, so I understand the confusion. But if you go by logic of it, an Astartes armor can't have more than belt and/or a bandolier, it doesn't give much room for other things than 3-4 clips pouches, 2-3 grenades, a blade and a pistol holster. The combat webbing is providing more room to place stuff and organize your gear.

The best way I can picture it is a cowboy and a military dude in full gear. The basic marine is like a cowboy: He will have his rifle, a pistol, a knife and maybe a side pouch to put cash and small items. With combat webbing, like the one of a comtemporary soldier, you can have like 6 grenades, a long range communication device, survival kit, medical kit, breaching tools, breaching charges, hydratation kit, camo webbing, gas mask and many other things even before even packing anything in a backpack.

The difference is there: The webbig is an item organizer that permit a soldier to bring more stuff than his regular cowboy outfit can handle. It is more practical for long term engagement than short one, as it permit to bring more stuff, add versatility and the possibility to bring more stuff useful for many different situations. The Astartes combat weebing come with basic pouches of items, but it is specified that you can add even more if needed.

Edited May 1 by Harding (see edit history)

[DarthAnthrax]

I guess the basic thing is that since there is no listed benefit for having it/restriction for not having it, I´m just having a hard time seeing why this is an item in the first place.

2 hours ago, Harding said:

The difference is there: The webbig is an item organizer that permit a soldier to bring more stuff than his regular cowboy outfit can handle. It is more practical for long term engagement than short one, as it permit to bring more stuff, add versatility and the possibility to bring more stuff useful for many different situations. The Astartes combat weebing come with basic pouches of items, but it is specified that you can add even more if needed.

I understand what the item is meant to be, it´s just to me it´s utterly pointless since I have no idea what I can carry around without it. It just seems to me like it´s an item that gives a purely narrative benefit (as well as an implied but never specified mechanical one) but still has a mechanical cost. I can accept if that is the case (though I don´t like it), but I was confused as to whether this is the case or not.

Also, I don´t really get stuff like the medicae pouch. If you are just requisitioning the webbing (which I think is meant to be the case), can you then just say that you have such a pouch, and get the benefits? Or is that a separate requisition?

 

Thanks for trying to have it make sense to me, but it starts to feel like I just have to settle for this being an extremely poorly written item (IMO) that I´m just supposed to requisition without thinking too much about it.

[Ayeba]

4 hours ago, DarthAnthrax said:

Also, I don´t really get stuff like the medicae pouch. If you are just requisitioning the webbing (which I think is meant to be the case), can you then just say that you have such a pouch, and get the benefits? Or is that a separate requisition?

The Medicae bonus compared to the requisition cost is bonkers. I'm not complaining, though. Maybe someone decided that failing Medicae tests was not a good way to generate fun?

[Maester1216]

@Harding,

For reference I was giving the Errata a look over, and it seems they dropped the Melta Bomb's Requisition from 25 to 12. So that should free you up for an extra 13 points.

Or wait, the Requisition is different between the Corebook and Rites of Battle... are they technically different weapons?

@Trish_the_Nugg_Queen,

Remind me, can a Kill-Team try and persuade their higher-ups for more Requisition on a mission? I know you can do that in Only War, but all I found relating to that in Deathwatch is this line on page 138:

"A straight forward Mission may have a Requisition rating of 50, while the protracted defence of a planet may warrant a rating of 200 or more. If a Kill-team disagrees with the assessment of a Mission’s difficulty, their Leader can try to convince the Mission authority, but frequent quibbling is not viewed favourably."

Also what would be the difficulty of a Tactics (Orbital Drop Procedures) roll ahead of the Mission?

Edited May 2 by Maester1216 (see edit history)

[Ayeba]

10 hours ago, Harding said:

Astartes flamer (10)

If the Hellfire Flamer (Rites of Battle p97/98) is available, it looks superior to the Astartes Flamer. In fact, it almost feels like the authors figured the regular flamer was too weak and added a stronger one.

• Hellfire: Basic, 20m, S/-/-, 1d10+9 E, pen 5, clip 6, Flame & Tearing, req 10, no renown requirement
• Astartes: Basic, 20m, S/-/-, 2d10+2 E, pen 3, clip 6, Flame, req 10, no renown requiremen

---

4 minutes ago, Maester1216 said:

Remind me, can a Kill-Team try and persuade their higher-ups for more Requisition on a mission? I know you can do that in Only War, but all I found relating to that in Deathwatch is this line on page 138:

"A straight forward Mission may have a Requisition rating of 50, while the protracted defence of a planet may warrant a rating of 200 or more. If a Kill-team disagrees with the assessment of a Mission’s difficulty, their Leader can try to convince the Mission authority, but frequent quibbling is not viewed favourably."

Do we really need it? Is there something in particular you want that you can't afford? I can probably donate requisition (see below).

---

@Trish_the_Nugg_Queen There's an item in Rites of Battle I'm curious about, the Crozius Arcanum (description on p140, table on p147). It's "only ever issued to Space Marine Chaplains". Does a Sanguinary Priest count in that regard?

I'll be honest -- if I was the GM I probably wouldn't allow it, because the stats on that thing is pretty insane. Still, I figure it can't hurt to ask.

---

I have the following requisitions so far:

• Combat Webbing [req 3]
• Blood of Heroes [req 15] (First Founding p101)
• Diagnostor Helmet [req 15] (Deathwatch p165)

As for weapons, I have so far only got the Bolter Pistol and Chainsword. I'm seriously considering bringing a heavy weapon that I'll have to stow away when we get to melee.

• A Heavy Bolter has great range (150m) and can put down suppressive fire. I probably won't hit much with it, but having some ability to pin enemies seems very useful. If no one else is bringing it, I'll probably pick it up so that we as a squad have the option. It can also be borrowed to someone with better BS than Zorael, 'cause it doesn't matter to me who kills the Xenos as long as they die.
• The Vasgotox Spray-Cannon is scarily good for what it can do: Hit all enemies (and allies!) in a cone up to 40m, dealing a ton of damage (2d10+10 with tearing and pen 10), possibly applying fear, and jamming almost 27% of the time -- but it will only jam if you roll a 9, so that's great damage before it jams.
• The Phosphorex Incinerator Cannon is somewhat similar. Long range (60m), less damage (2d10+6 and pen 10), can apply fear *and* burn, and doesn't jam quite as often -- only 19% of the time. The rifle is the variant with less range and damage, but can still apply fear and burn.
• The Astartes Missile Launcher (Soundstrike) or the Armourbane Missile Launcher: Great range, a lot of extra explosions -- but grenades are a lot more portable and almost as good if we're fighting at a closer range.

The problem with both suppressive fire and spray weapons are that they hit indiscriminately. If some in our group intend to go into melee at first opportunity, I don't want to hit them.

Can I ask for some help in deciding if any of these seem like a particularly good or bad idea? I'm also fine with donating my requisition to someone else who needs it more.

Edited May 2 by Ayeba (see edit history)

[Harding]

14 hours ago, Ayeba said:

If the Hellfire Flamer (Rites of Battle p97/98) is available, it looks superior to the Astartes Flamer. In fact, it almost feels like the authors figured the regular flamer was too weak and added a stronger one.

• Hellfire: Basic, 20m, S/-/-, 1d10+9 E, pen 5, clip 6, Flame & Tearing, req 10, no renown requirement
• Astartes: Basic, 20m, S/-/-, 2d10+2 E, pen 3, clip 6, Flame, req 10, no renown requiremen

---

 

 

14 hours ago, Maester1216 said:

@Harding,

For reference I was giving the Errata a look over, and it seems they dropped the Melta Bomb's Requisition from 25 to 12. So that should free you up for an extra 13 points.

Or wait, the Requisition is different between the Corebook and Rites of Battle... are they technically different weapons?

 

Hey! Thanks for the help there. I have only one concern about the suggested weapon: Hellfire flamer come from the Omega Vault of the Deathwatch in the Jerico sector, which like many things that come from there, have unknown (or cryptic at best) origins. We practically have no data if it is lore friendly with the time of the Crusades, so I would need the DM ruling to know if it is okay to get one. Otherwise, I'm also eyeing phosphex weapons as a possible choices...

 

Edited May 2 by Harding (see edit history)

[Trish_the_Nugg_Queen]

So many questions 😵 I'll try to catch up and get back to everyone haha

 

18 hours ago, Maester1216 said:

Remind me, can a Kill-Team try and persuade their higher-ups for more Requisition on a mission?

You can try, but unless there's something in particular you want to take that the squad doesn't have the necessary requisition for, it's probably not a good idea to push your luck too hard on this

 

18 hours ago, Maester1216 said:

Also what would be the difficulty of a Tactics (Orbital Drop Procedures) roll ahead of the Mission?

I'll say just a regular +0 difficulty, dropping from orbit into a mass of orks is gonna be pretty standard procedure for a Luna Wolf and the facility doesn't necessarily need to be recovered so there's little added complication in trying to avoid landing in the middle of a vital structure or something. Success here will get the squad to land more accurately to the position you choose (I'm in the process of drawing up a map), and/or take the orks by surprise when you land.

 

18 hours ago, Ayeba said:

 There's an item in Rites of Battle I'm curious about, the Crozius Arcanum (description on p140, table on p147). It's "only ever issued to Space Marine Chaplains". Does a Sanguinary Priest count in that regard?

I'll be honest -- if I was the GM I probably wouldn't allow it, because the stats on that thing is pretty insane. Still, I figure it can't hurt to ask.

I'm gonna say no - chaplains are sort of a thing in 30k, so I've left the Deathwatch chaplain specialty open to anyone who wants to take it. At this stage only really the Word Bearers make widespread use of chaplains, but at the Council of Nikea (which took place very shortly after the Ullanor Crusade) the Emperor decreed that chaplains would be adopted & standardised across the legions. Didn't end up helping much with avoiding the Heresy though, in fact most things decided on at Nikea probably just worsened the Heresy.

 

19 hours ago, Ayeba said:

The problem with both suppressive fire and spray weapons are that they hit indiscriminately. If some in our group intend to go into melee at first opportunity, I don't want to hit them.

This does seem to be a pretty melee-focused party. Also, I feel I should mention the 30k weapons are 100% my own homebrew and I have no clue how balanced they are, use at your own risk 🙃 I'm pretty happy with the radguns in particular though, looking at the 30k tabletop rules they seem to function in much the same way there, where they're not really viable for killing anything but they do inflict awful debuffs on tough enemies. Destroyer weapons tend to see varying use between the legions, I think the Death Guard and Iron Warriors use them the most frequently, while the Ultramarines are the most vocally against them (to the point that they were later banned by the Codex Astartes).

 

4 hours ago, Harding said:

Hey! Thanks for the help there. I have only one concern about the suggested weapon: Hellfire flamer come from the Omega Vault of the Deathwatch in the Jerico sector, which like many things that come from there, have unknown (or cryptic at best) origins. We practically have no data if it is lore friendly with the time of the Crusades, so I would need the DM ruling to know if it is okay to get one. Otherwise, I'm also eyeing phosphex weapons as a possible choices...

I'll allow it 😁 I don't wanna ban too many things on the basis of the 30k time period, unless it's explicitly stated in canon that they didn't exist yet

 

On 5/2/2024 at 9:03 AM, DarthAnthrax said:

Thanks for trying to have it make sense to me, but it starts to feel like I just have to settle for this being an extremely poorly written item (IMO) that I´m just supposed to requisition without thinking too much about it.

Yeah I'm not sure I can help here unfortunately 😅 I love the FFG games, but they do tend to be poorly designed in a few places. Probably a good idea to take the webbing for now, it's fairly cheap at least

 

Also, for everyone, I'm considering boosting everyone's renown to 20 (Respected) to give some more options on requisition, I've noticed a few people struggling on what to choose and while I like the concept of renown tracking individual reputation & giving access to better equipment as a reward for character progress, I also don't want to lock fun equipment away.

[Maester1216]

Starting at a higher Renown does seem appropo, but I'm fine with any decision on that front.

[Ayeba]

3 hours ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

I'm gonna say no - chaplains are sort of a thing in 30k, so I've left the Deathwatch chaplain specialty open to anyone who wants to take it.

Not out of the question. I'll have to wait until we're back before considering it, though.

3 hours ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

This does seem to be a pretty melee-focused party.

Good point. I can stow away the heavy weapon when we get to melee range.

3 hours ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

Also, I feel I should mention the 30k weapons are 100% my own homebrew and I have no clue how balanced they are, use at your own risk

I'm not too worried. The core weapons are plenty dangerous already. Take the Lascannon; 300m, 6d10+10 E, pen 10? That's going to leave a mark.

3 hours ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

I'm pretty happy with the radguns in particular though, looking at the 30k tabletop rules they seem to function in much the same way there, where they're not really viable for killing anything but they do inflict awful debuffs on tough enemies

To be honest, I wasn't even considering them. The problem, as far as I'm concerned, is that they are seem hard to stick on an enemy with unnatural toughness, and their effects don't stack well with the rest of the team.

The only thing you might be worried about is the size of the areas affected by the spray weapons. With 60m, the Phosphex Incinerator Cannon affects an absolutely massive area. It matters less if we're fighting hordes, but against grouped up single enemies this is potentially a game changer. Which is exactly why I'm considering taking it.

3 hours ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

Also, for everyone, I'm considering boosting everyone's renown to 20 (Respected) to give some more options on requisition, I've noticed a few people struggling on what to choose and while I like the concept of renown tracking individual reputation & giving access to better equipment as a reward for character progress, I also don't want to lock fun equipment away.

I'm not sure that will make the choices any easier. Do let us know what you decide on, 'cause there are at least one item I'd love to get at higher renown; a Death Mask. Fear me, greenskins!

---

Something entirely different: If we carry a teleport homer, can we be beamed up again at the end of the mission? That sounds like a no-brainer for easy extraction.

Edited May 3 by Ayeba (see edit history)

[8bitWizard]

As an almost exclusively melee focused character, I don't really have a lot of options with the lowest level of renown, save for covering myself in probably unnecessary wargear like a chrono or a cartograph. Really, all I can get is a chainsword, which I already have. Going to the next lowest level of renown opens a lot more options for me, but I don't want to detract from the feeling of progression either.

I'm fine with either, but given the preference, I think we'd all enjoy a small renown boost to improve our loadouts.

[luctius]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:09 AM, Ayeba said:

As for weapons, I have so far only got the Bolter Pistol and Chainsword. I'm seriously considering bringing a heavy weapon that I'll have to stow away when we get to melee.

• A Heavy Bolter has great range (150m) and can put down suppressive fire. I probably won't hit much with it, but having some ability to pin enemies seems very useful. If no one else is bringing it, I'll probably pick it up so that we as a squad have the option. It can also be borrowed to someone with better BS than Zorael, 'cause it doesn't matter to me who kills the Xenos as long as they die.
• The Vasgotox Spray-Cannon is scarily good for what it can do: Hit all enemies (and allies!) in a cone up to 40m, dealing a ton of damage (2d10+10 with tearing and pen 10), possibly applying fear, and jamming almost 27% of the time -- but it will only jam if you roll a 9, so that's great damage before it jams.
• The Phosphorex Incinerator Cannon is somewhat similar. Long range (60m), less damage (2d10+6 and pen 10), can apply fear *and* burn, and doesn't jam quite as often -- only 19% of the time. The rifle is the variant with less range and damage, but can still apply fear and burn.
• The Astartes Missile Launcher (Soundstrike) or the Armourbane Missile Launcher: Great range, a lot of extra explosions -- but grenades are a lot more portable and almost as good if we're fighting at a closer range.

The problem with both suppressive fire and spray weapons are that they hit indiscriminately. If some in our group intend to go into melee at first opportunity, I don't want to hit them.

Can I ask for some help in deciding if any of these seem like a particularly good or bad idea? I'm also fine with donating my requisition to someone else who needs it more.

 

First of all, I wouldn't rule out the Astartes Assault Shotgun I previously suggested; it is a cheap way to get Auto Fire, and a pretty good weapon in it's own right. Edit: Additionally, because it is cheap, and a basic weapon, you could easily requisition it, and for example a Flamer for less points than a Heavy Bolter.

 

That said, I think we have enough spray-type weapons. Suppression can be nice to slow one group while the we focus on another, or use our spray weapons/grenades. And a missile launcher's long range can fill in our weakness there.

 

As a side note on the Cannon's, if we are at the respected rank, you could requisition Exceptional craftsmanship weapons for 1.5x the cost, which would make them reliable. Additionaly if we are respected, you would have access to several other weapons to ease your analyses-paralysis ;-), like plasma, melta weapons, and a haywire EMP grenade...

 

16 hours ago, Ayeba said:

Something entirely different: If we carry a teleport homer, can we be beamed up again at the end of the mission? That sounds like a no-brainer for easy extraction.

If my memory serves me well, in 40K, teleporters are rare and fickle things. It only available on some ships, and there is a chance of failure like ending up in the wrong space, or in the middle of a wall. I think in 30K it is more reliable, but still rare.

 

Edited May 3 by luctius (see edit history)