Questions thread

[Rudra]

If something isnt clear, if i have missed something, if you need an information to complete your character and cant find it, ask here (please do not post character-related questions in the main ooc thread)

[EDTA]

Were there any other prohibitions on materials we can use apart from some of the races? Setting materials, Dragon Magazines, Essentials versus original stuff?

 

Or any other house rules we should be aware of? I seem to remember getting an Expertise feat for free was a popular one back in the day.

[Rudra]

I'd say no, as long as you can refluff to fit the setting you can use whatever official material you want(but be kind and note somewhere what dragon magazine/setting material you are using, will save me time when I'll check it over)

About house rules, I do remember the one you are mentioning, but I prefer to keep house rules to minimum so no

[Colette]

Do you allow hexblades to retrain their eldritch bolt and lesser planar ally powers, insomuch as they are leveled powers? Do you allow a hexblade to avail of Dual Implement Spellcaster just for wielding both their implement and their pact weapon? Do you allow Intimidate to be used to force enemies to surrender?

Edited April 21 by Colette (see edit history)

[Ryfte]

@Rudra Would you allow whips to still be in the flail group?

They were originally in the flail group (Dragon 368) but later had an errata that shifted them into their own group, which removed virtually all support they had. I've got a fighter build that specializes in whips using the flail feat support to be a controller-y defender.

Whip (superior melee)
Prof +3
Damage 1d4
Range --
Price 10gp
Weight 2 lbs.
Group Flail
Properties off-hand, reach

Whip DetailsA whip is an off-hand weapon. A character can use a whip to make attacks even while holding another one-handed weapon in the other hand, and can use the other one-handed weapon to make attacks even if it isn't an off-hand weapon. A whip also has reach, so a character wielding it can make attacks other than opportunity attacks on enemies either 1 or 2 squares away.

No class has proficiency with the whip as a class trait, but any character can become proficient by taking a Weapon Proficiency feat. Martial classes may also gain proficiency with the Whip Training multiclass feat.

The whip's price in Dragon magazine issue 368 and the Dark Sun Campaign Setting was 1 gp. Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium increased the price to 10 gp.

[Rudra]

@Colette 

-You can swap eldritch shot for another at-will, if you dont like it (i think having a ranged basic attack at-will is quite handy, but as said i wont prevent you from changing it)

-Lesser planar ally cant be swapped, because its like a bonus power, hexblades get an utility 2 power, then at level 4 they get lesser planar ally, then another utility 6 power, standard classes dont get a power at level 4

-Dual implement spellcaster work with implement+pact weapon

-intimidate to make bloodied enemy surrender? i have no problem with it, intelligent foes rarely fight to the death if they have the option to flee/surrender, i think this is the kind of tactic that need to be discussed with the party.

@Ryfte no, i wont allow that, having whips count as flail would be a significant change(a significant boost i'd say) a one handed reach flail would end up being better than polearms at polearms job

compare whip-flail+flail expertise+slide 1 to polearm+polearm momentum+push or slide 2, the former is significantly superior and easier to set up

However there is a workaround i would allow: if you pick Fighter Arena training class feature(dark sun) and select Whip and Flail as your arena weapons, then you can apply the flail expertise feat to whips (it's not entirely clear if the feature is meant to apply only the numerical bonuses or the whole feat, so i'll say it's the latter)

[Ryfte]

9 hours ago, Rudra said:

@Ryfte no, i wont allow that, having whips count as flail would be a significant change(a significant boost i'd say) a one handed reach flail would end up being better than polearms at polearms job

compare whip-flail+flail expertise+slide 1 to polearm+polearm momentum+push or slide 2, the former is significantly superior and easier to set up

However there is a workaround i would allow: if you pick Fighter Arena training class feature(dark sun) and select Whip and Flail as your arena weapons, then you can apply the flail expertise feat to whips (it's not entirely clear if the feature is meant to apply only the numerical bonuses or the whole feat, so i'll say it's the latter)

Its all good and that seems like a fair solution. I figured I'd ask as whips actually were in the flail group originally. For a number of years before their "errata" eventually, lol. That being said the default has always been just using the spiked gain or the kusari-gama. I was trying to go more for style over mechanics and get away from the routine spiked chain build with dual whips instead. You are 100% correct about the controller-like setup with feats of course but that's baked in with the spiked chain and kusari-gama as superior weapons than the whip already. *shrug*

Kusari-Gama (Superior Melee, Double Weapon, Dragon #404)

Prof: +2/+2

Damage: 1d8/1d6

Range: --

Price: 10gp

Weight: 3 lb.

Group: Flail, Light Blade

Properties: Defensive, Reach, Off-Hand

 

Edit: All this being said I'm considering a standard wizard controller anyways, lol. :D

Edited April 21 by Ryfte (see edit history)

[Rudra]

Well, these are two handed weapons, closer to the polearm from a balance point of view( a whip user could grab a shield for example).

But if your objective is style over mechanics(which i do like!) you can pick the kusari-gama(who has reach only on the flail end, while the light blade end has off-hand) and refluff it to be a whip and a light blade,

[EDTA]

So I was thinking Bard and I remembered a fun little tiefling feat, Stirring Song of Baator, but then I remembered a snag. There are a lot of 4e weapons that can let you change the damage type of the powers used through them but for some reason only the Flaming weapon got a stealth errata so rather than converting whatever damage type it did before it only works with untyped damage which is a problem since most of Bard's implement powers are typed damage.

 

I was wondering if I could use the original, non DM Kit version (since it literally only changed Flaming). I think it's still plenty balanced, I need to use multiple feats to use weapons as implements, make up for Flaming being in an expensive tier, and to get a benefit from it in the first place. That, and the secret Flaming change (while leaving all the similar and equally optimizable options alone) is just one of those dumb late design things that happened.

[Rudra]

Between level 1 and 5 there are 8 bard implement powers that either have no damage keyword, have the fire keyword or have the fear keyword, Stirring Song of Baator require hitting not damaging so even attacks that deal no damage are valid for this feat. You said it yourself building for flaming weapon as implement is going to be expensive in feats&wealth, doing it "just" to hand out 5thp to one ally, once x round, if you hit doesnt seem particularly convenient, i'd suggest to drop the idea of the flaming weapon and simply chose 2 or 3 of these powers (maybe an at-will, an encounter and a daily) .

But i admit that my resistance is because i'd rater limit houserules, i agree with you, the flaming weapon errata is strange and i dont understand the reason, so yes, lets pretend this specific bit of errata never happened.

 

 

Edited April 22 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Trigun]

Or that you're ruling that the original, pre-errata version can be used.

[Ryfte]

Not a lot of draw so far. :(

[Rudra]

Indeed, cant say i'm surprised, i dont remember seeing a dnd4 game here on the new site and even on the old site it was a pretty rare sight in the last few years, i've spent a considerable amount of time debating if to pick dnd4(my preferred choice) or go for dnd5/pathfinder(the most popular choices), ultimately i went with the former, to have no regrets.

 

[Trigun]

Sorry. I haven't had much time on my character. Especially since I really want to play 4e DnD again after so many years. I'm hoping to have more time in the next few days to work out my application more.

[Ryfte]

Last year I started picking up all the 4e books / resources I could. Kept a look out on e-bay, thriftbooks, used bookstores, etc. and literally picked up everything I didn't have for a fraction of the original prices. I now have an almost complete 4e collection! Its awesome. I just don't get to play it because no one runs it, lol. :D