Sandbox or Adventure Path?

[Malkavian Grin]

Give me a sandbox with mini-plots!

I'm sooooo tired of "epic" stories where no one else in the world can get stuff done. That's heckin' boring.

[Vladim]

When discussing sandbox vs. linear adventures, I think there's a lot of false dichotomies and confusing definitions in the hobby. For example...

 

On 4/25/2024 at 12:52 AM, cailano said:

In a Pure Sandbox campaign, the PCs are presented with a setting and given free reign to explore it. Any plot that develops is emergent and based on PC actions.

(Emphasis mine)

This last bit is, in my opinion, unrelated to sandbox and potentially confusing. It is not about the setting or the premise; it's just a statement about the plot, which is improvised and made "on the fly" (and only related to the PCs' actions).

Therefore, I think it's more useful to have a category of "improvised GMing" that's unrelated to sandbox/linear.

These kind of "sandbox" improvised games can end up feeling a bit hollow or non-immersive because they can give an impression that nothing really happens in the world unless the PCs do it. But this is less to do with the sandbox style of play and more with the GM's (in)ability to flesh out the setting and make it come alive. As a result, sandbox games often (and imo undeservedly) get a bad rep.

Same for linear-you can have "true" linear (where no choices matter, and that sucks) but also branching linear (where there might be multiple forks in the road, which makes it far more palatable).

For me... It depends. The hobby truly shines brightest in an open, immersive world with much going on in the background ("plots") and with PCs with strong drives and proactive players, that also mesh really well. But in an online environment, much of that is a tall order. On the other hand, give me a compelling story and theme, and I don't mind the occasional rail in the road. So... both?

[SMARTAgentKC]

When it comes to games I am a pure adventure path guy but I like my world to have hidden things running in the background.

[cailano]

9 hours ago, SMARTAgentKC said:

When it comes to games I am a pure adventure path guy but I like my world to have hidden things running in the background.

How does that end up working? Kind of like side quests?

[SMARTAgentKC]

It's more like this,

Hero group has been summoned to aid in the finding of someone important who has been whisked away by dark forces. A high level sage (someone the group's respects/reports to) locks onto the target using magic and the group is sent just outside the location with the mission to rescue the target. The group goes in, navigates through a few encounters with some NPCs, a few monsters, and does a battle encounter with those who have the target hostage. The group wins the fight, releasing the hostage from the captors and escape.

However the hostage reveals that the reason he was captured was he was used as a gift to the captor from an evil queen sorceress in exchange for cooperation to fight against another queen who one upped the first queen by taking an artifact that was supposed to be kept secured by the sage but it is revealed that a lapse in security two weeks prior plus some deception by the second villainous queen caused the artifact to be taken and now the sage has to inform others of this incident but dismisses the heroes thanking them for their work and rewarding them properly saying that it's something he has to look into

The heroes go onto to deal with another smaller incident that is unrelated to the first but still trouble but then a few weeks later, the second queen comes knocking in a smug tone saying "oh heroes I have some information you want to know about a big plot that this first queen has a hand in oh and about that little artifact I stole a month ago, you want it? Come and get it. Challenge!" So now the group has two missions, one to stop a big plot of the first queen another to liberate a powerful artifact from the second queen who has challenged them. All the while they had no influence on the events that occurred hidden in the background involving these two queens or this artifact and the only reason they are involved at all is because they rescued someone from a subordinate of the first queen and their patron sage needs their help to do hero work.

 

 

[shawnhcorey]

I prefer a road trip. The destination is known but you're free to choose the path. And along the way there is construction, traffic jams, detours, tourist attractions, and scenic routes. Not to mention advice from locals that may help or hinder.

[cailano]

13 minutes ago, shawnhcorey said:

I prefer a road trip. The destination is known but you're free to choose the path. And along the way there is construction, traffic jams, detours, tourist attractions, and scenic routes. Not to mention advice from locals that may help or hinder.

That sounds like Jade Regent, which is still one of my favorite campaigns that I've run. It was definitely a road trip of a game; every module had a different setting. I'd put it firmly in the adventure path box but with some sandbox elements. In fact, that was exactly the game I was thinking of when I wrote that description.

[Feirgon]

You know. There is one person here who has yet to provide their own preference...

 

Unless this counts.

4 hours ago, cailano said:

That sounds like Jade Regent, which is still one of my favorite campaigns that I've run. It was definitely a road trip of a game; every module had a different setting. I'd put it firmly in the adventure path box but with some sandbox elements. In fact, that was exactly the game I was thinking of when I wrote that description.

Edited April 29 by Feirgon (see edit history)

[cailano]

1 minute ago, Feirgon said:

You know. There is one person here who has yet to provide their own preference...

 

Unless this counts.

Moi? Haha, I'm always happy to talk about my preferences.

I've run campaigns in multiple styles, and I'm currently running an almost pure Sandbox Exploration game, which has been a lot of fun so far.

But I think my favorite is the Adventure Path with Sandbox Elements option. It gives the PCs direction and, perhaps more importantly, provides a sense of progression and variety in a campaign.

[cybersavant]

On 4/29/2024 at 8:56 AM, cailano said:

That sounds like Jade Regent, which is still one of my favorite campaigns that I've run. It was definitely a road trip of a game; every module had a different setting. I'd put it firmly in the adventure path box but with some sandbox elements. In fact, that was exactly the game I was thinking of when I wrote that description.

I joined that AP late as a replacement. Not sure how far we actually got - game seems to have petered out - we were last in a viking city

i had a Kitsune sorcerer - but the enchant spells weren't that helpful so far; plus i should have had the tian (?) language from the start

Edited 20 hours ago by cybersavant (see edit history)

[Nebula]

Good topic.

I thought sandbox was the best, but in my experience many players have difficulty to navigate the unlimited boundaries and get anxious. Many people will just do a brain freeze. In my humble opinion it take the right kind of players to do a cooperative world building with the GM.

Personally i enjoy most of the AP as long we can sandbox and go in another direction for sub-quest or do different things if we wish to do so. I would also encourage the GM to adjust the AP and make some content change based on the party composition and players to make it enjoyable for everybody.

Cheers,

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Nebula (see edit history)

[Nebula]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:56 PM, cailano said:

That sounds like Jade Regent, which is still one of my favorite campaigns that I've run. It was definitely a road trip of a game; every module had a different setting. I'd put it firmly in the adventure path box but with some sandbox elements. In fact, that was exactly the game I was thinking of when I wrote that description.

I really enjoyed Jade Regent. But as an Asian, i respectfully have mix feelings sometime how people roleplay my ancestors hahaha... Doesn't upset me, and it depend on the players and people of course, but it's easy to fall into the usual pitfalls, tropes and stereotypes in eastern Asian set up. ;)

Edited 23 hours ago by Nebula (see edit history)

[cailano]

16 minutes ago, Nebula said:

I really enjoyed Jade Regent. But as an Asian, i respectfully have mix feelings sometime how people roleplay my ancestors hahaha... Doesn't upset me, and it depend on the players and people of course, but it's easy to fall into the usual pitfalls, tropes and stereotypes in eastern Asian set up. ;)

That was a major concern for me in that game because, well, first of all, I didn’t want to be that guy and secondly because one of my players was from Singapore and of Chinese descent. Not being Asian, I’m not sure how I did. Hopefully less than awful but I’m not confident about it.

Then again, I probably role play my own ancestors just as poorly.

[Nebula]

1 minute ago, cailano said:

That was a major concern for me in that game because, well, first of all, I didn’t want to be that guy and secondly because one of my players was from Singapore and of Chinese descent. Not being Asian, I’m not sure how I did. Hopefully less than awful but I’m not confident about it.

Well, if they didn't leave the game, its mean you did fairly well probably. Thanks for trying anyway. :)

[shawnhcorey]

19 minutes ago, Nebula said:

I really enjoyed Jade Regent. But as an Asian, i respectfully have mix feelings sometime how people roleplay my ancestors hahaha... Doesn't upset me, and it depend on the players and people of course, but it's easy to fall into the usual pitfalls, tropes and stereotypes in eastern Asian set up. ;)

My ancestry is European and "classical" fantasy RPGs are full of pitfalls, tropes, and stereotypes of the genre.