Cities Without Number

[Aavarius]

Curious to know if there's any interest in (or awareness of) this game system. It's the same "[Location] Without Number" OSR system found in all of Kevin Crawford's games, so if you know the mechanics of one of them you pretty much know the mechanics of all of them. This particular one is his take on the cyberpunk genre.

Unfortunately, I don't have any more of a link to offer than the Kickstarter, which is long since completed and quickly nearing having a release candidate ready for print. Full disclosure: I did back this Kickstarter. We've been getting weekly releases every Sunday-ish since the end of January. Previously, Kevin has been indifferent about sharing the beta content with the wider Internet, but I have yet to find a specific statement saying as much on this particular crowdfunding campaign, so I'll not press my luck by assuming it's acceptable to do so this time. If you happen to have evidence indicating that he's still OK with that, please share.

Cities and its sister games all have (or will have in the case of Cities) free versions out there you can play. That makes the barrier to entry pretty low.

Are you interested in playing? Any comments or critique of it? Did anybody else back this? Love to hear your thoughts.

And for further discussion's sake, I made a character. It's rules-as-written for 1st level creation, except I added one bit of cyberware to demonstrate what that looks like.

Ta-da!

Kestrel

Operator Level: 1st (0 XP)

Hit Points: 7/7

Damage Soak: 5/5

System Strain: 0/14

 

ABILITIES, SAVES, & COMBAT

Strength: 10		Physical: 14	Attack Bonus: +1
Dexterity: 16	(+1)	Evasion: 14	AC - Ranged: 17
Constitution: 15	(+1)	Mental: 14	AC - Melee: 15
Intelligence: 10		Luck: 15	Trauma Target: 7
Wisdom: 15	(+1)
Charisma: 8

 

SKILLS

Administer -1	Heal -1	Program -1	Survive -1
Connect -1	Know +0	Punch -1	Talk -1
Drive -1	Lead +0	Shoot +1	Trade -1
Exert +1	Notice +0	Sneak -1	Work -1
Fix -1	Perform -1	Stab -1

 

 

 

 

Skill Points: 0

 

BACKGROUND, EDGES, & FOCI

Background

• Soldier (Marine, retired): Exert, Lead, Shoot, +2 Wisdom; Know as a hobby skill.

Edges

• On Target: Shoot as a bonus skill; Your basic attack bonus is equal to your character level
• Educated: Notice as a bonus skill; Whenever you gain skill points from character level advancement, you get a bonus skill point.

Foci

• Deadeye (1): Exert exchanged for Shoot as a bonus skill; You can Ready a Stowed ranged weapon as an Instant action. May use a rifle or two-handed ranged weapons in melee with a -4 attack penalty; Add Shoot skill to ranged damage rolls.

 

CYBERWARE

Sensory

• Gunlink (1, Touch): With a modern firearm, ignore range penalties, negate 4 points of hit penalties for cover, concealment, or prone; 1/scene (Instant action) reroll a missed attack with a gun. [$1250]

Maintenance: $1250/month

 

EQUIPMENT

<Readied: 5/5>

• Heavy Pistol: +2 ranged (1d8+2, Trauma 1d8/x2) 300m/500m; Mag 8/8 <1>
• Knife: +0 melee or ranged (1d4+1, Shock 2/AC 15, Trauma 1d6/x3) 10m/20m <1>
• Armored Clothing (Overcoat): Ranged AC 16/Melee AC 14 (Damage Soak 5) +1 Trauma Target; Subtle <2>
• Heavy pistol magazines (ammo 8/24) x3 <1#>

<Stowed: 1/10>

• Smartphone, basic <*>
• Trauma patch <1>

$: 0

 

CONTACTS

Basil Whistler

• Type: Acquaintance
• Benefit: Sell you not-too-very-illegal armament.
• Description: Basil's quintessentially English, voice and demeanor loudly and proudly Northern. He has a salt-and-pepper beard that's close cropped and hawkish features with pale blue eyes and prominent crow's feet. He's got some prosthetic cyberware from a close call with antipersonnel explosives. He takes exactly zero shit from anyone and isn't afraid to give his opinion.
• Shared History: Whistler is an old war buddy, a Marine quartermaster. He eventually got a civilian job in corper logistics managing a warehouse that supplies arms to security clients. He's no more of a corp fan than I am, but he likes the steady paycheck better than getting shot at for a living. Sometimes an item falls off the back of the delivery truck for a good cause (and a good payday).

Han Shen

• Type: Acquaintance
• Benefit: Make a local gang play nice with you.
• Description: A thinly built man of average height with a well manicured facial hair and topknot. He's from a traditional Chinese family, raised to be cool-headed and exacting. These days he's almost always found in a gray or white suit without a tie, generally more professional looking than his Red Lotus peers. His gang tattoos are hidden beneath his sleeve.
• Shared History: Han and I grew up in the same neighborhood together. We weren't close but we were friendly to each other. He went on to study law, I joined the Marines, we went our separate ways in life. While I was away from the city long enough to get disentangled from it, he never really left and got a job in a corpo legal department. He was eventually recruited into the Red Lotus triad when he became jaded from having to cover up so much corporate exploitation. He's now a legal advisor for the triad. He's well aware that the triad's grassroots, "community first" approach is a front for criminality, but in his mind he's justified it as better for people than the alternatives. We reconnected over a job when the Lotus hired operators to help with a bad situation and he seems to trust me to a rare degree. I remain conflicted about the relationship.

 

 

 

[Jedaii]

Since I've been pursuing a Shadowrun replacement for years, I'd be very interested in this. Kevin does good work, but it looks like there's no release date for the finished product as yet. How do you like what you've seen thus far?

[Papa Bear]

Is their magic and different races? The difference between Cyberpunk and Shadowrun, really. I never got much into the Places without Numbers system mostly because they just seemed D&D-ish... which isn't a bad thing... just not mechanically too different. The settings seem cool though.

[Essence]

I've always wanted to try my hand at an Without Numbers game after hearing much about Stars. Cities looks pretty promising and I'd be pretty interested. What do you like best about the system and any notable differences within the system between the Without Numbers games?

[Aavarius]

4 hours ago, Jedaii said:

Since I've been pursuing a Shadowrun replacement for years, I'd be very interested in this. Kevin does good work, but it looks like there's no release date for the finished product as yet. How do you like what you've seen thus far?

I like it, but I already had a bias in favor of the system, so take that as you will. Some assorted thoughts:

• Generally speaking it's leaning into the '80s era of cyberpunk.
• I think it's got it covered in the "equipment porn" sense. Vehicles, drones, cyberdecks, cyberware, guns, armor--many of these can be modded or otherwise customized. These will be similar to the way starships are built in Stars Without Number.
• It's grittier than even the usual Systems Without Number games, with a decent chance of scoring double to quadruple damage on any given ranged or explosive attack, location based permanent injuries if you go down from one of these, cyberware maintenance costs, and armor "hit points" that help absorb some of that punishment. There's enough uncertainty built into these subsystems that it's quite possible the rando 1d8 HP ganger with a Saturday night special gets a lucky mortal wound on a chromed-to-the-gills cyborg ninja. Players be warned.
• Since you're coming from a Shadowrun perspective, you're not going to get a replacement setting that's up to the same level of standard. Its' definitely written without a specific setting in mind. Could you bring over the Sixth World? I think so, yes. I'm more familiar with the setting than the mechanics of Shadowrun, but I did keep thinking while reading it that Kevin was keeping that in mind while designing. Some additional thoughts on this if you'll scroll down to my next response.
• There are no character classes, only a list of special abilities players get precious few picks from.
• There are character options to make you the equivalent of a vehicle rigger.
• There's a whole hacking (or decking, if you prefer) subsystem. You plug your fancy portable computer into an object and can then access the local full-dive VR network that underlies the meatspace around your body. You'll encounter demons (i.e. IC) and watchdogs (i.e. other deckers).

In regards to release, I'll be happy to update this space once I get a clearer update. Here's his most recent word on release. Previous estimates put books in hand sometime in August, if memory serves. Seems like that may still be fairly accurate. PDF will be available sooner.

(Click to enlarge)

2 hours ago, Papa Bear said:

Is their magic and different races? The difference between Cyberpunk and Shadowrun, really. I never got much into the Places without Numbers system mostly because they just seemed D&D-ish... which isn't a bad thing... just not mechanically too different. The settings seem cool though.

Yes! The paid version will have all of the following:

• There's a spellcasting system that's similar to the Psychic class from Stars Without Number (go check that out, it's available for free) and a new system for building and summoning spirits into the world. There's also a martial adept equivalent called the "Graced", where magic power is expressed as exceptional physical prowess.
• There are rules for magic items.
• Systems Without Number games have always used "System Strain" as a limit to the amount of chrome you can put in your body, which is functionally equivalent to the Essence limit. There's a subsystem for going crazy if you chrome up too much.
• Names of races are mostly taken from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine, (Eloi, Skyborn, Morlock, and Ogre) but in my opinion they're roughly analogous to Elves, Dwarves, Orks, and Trolls, respectively.
• There is no Technomancer equivalent. The system is flexible enough I don't think it would be impossible to homebrew something like that, but it would take a some forethought.

Yes, it's definitely D&D-ish in approach. There's no getting around that since it's coming from the Old School Renaissance part of gaming. Those are all broadly compatible with each other and backwards compatible with older versions of D&D, but if D&D isn't your bag I can understand why that may not be a selling point.

56 minutes ago, Essence said:

I've always wanted to try my hand at an Without Numbers game after hearing much about Stars. Cities looks pretty promising and I'd be pretty interested. What do you like best about the system and any notable differences within the system between the Without Numbers games?

It's not dramatically different from the other Systems Without Number, so if you're looking for a change of pace this isn't it. There are a few genre inspired subsystems bolted on that you could easily port over to other Systems Without Number games whole cloth. Many of them just use a variant on an already existing sybsystem (e.g. Effort points as a resource). The book includes advice and tables for using a few of these in Kevin's other games. Assorted differences include...

• The more robust cyberware
• The aforementioned damage multiplier chance (Called "Traumatic Hits") is neat but brutal.
• Ranged and Melee AC being different values
• Ablative armor HP
• Permanent injuries
• The magic systems
• Classless character creation
• Vehicle customization and chase rules
• More robust drone customization
• A more robust hacking subsystem

---

Assorted GM thoughts:

The biggest draw for Kevin's games, in my opinion, are the many system agnostic tools. They're just generally jammed full of world, adventure, location, and NPC creation aids to help a GM out. Even if you don't like the game system it still has several resources that may make downloading the free version worth looking at.

All of Kevin's games are built for sandbox play. In my opinion, this one, more than the others, succeeds the best in achieving that end. As a GM it provides me with a systematic way of generating a cyberpunk setting and a systematic way of generating schemes for the various factions to pursue, which in turn systematically generates missions for the PCs to take (or decline) at their whim. It looks like I would always have a stable of interesting things for them to do tied to the setting, sort of like a constantly refreshing menu of choices that I don't have to spend my limited prep time coming up with from scratch.

Of course, if you love building a theme park campaign, I don't see any reason you can't scrap all that systematic generation and just make the story you want to make. No harm in that if it's your preference.

The assumption in the game is that PCs will have regular access to expensive cyberware to boost their power, but the drawback is each bit is a money sink. To keep your cyberware going you need to pay your monthly maintenance costs, which necessitates further adventuring, which itself is made easier with better cyber. It's an intentional feedback loop that is supposed to keep players in the action.

 

It can't be all good, though. Some criticism:

I've never liked how your ability scores in this system almost don't matter. This is a little bit of a problem in modern D&D, but it's more noticeable here. I recognize that a +1 or +2 in this system (especially to a skill check) is not a terrible bonus, but why have the 3 to 18 range on the ability scores if it hardly affects things? There's no meaningful difference between my 13 Str face puncher guy than the 8 Str hacker nerd.

• The question was rhetorical, because the answer is tradition. D&D has a lot of sacred cows it's unwilling to slaughter and playing an OSR game means buying into that tradition.

As a product, the Without Number books aren't all that attractive to look at. They're mostly two columns of black-and-white text with little in the way of art or artistic formatting. I realize Sine Nomine is a one-man operation without a big art budget, but that doesn't make it any less boring to look at. Some more color would not go amiss.

The skill descriptions are fine. That's it. Just fine. They're serviceable. This might be damning with faint praise, but I would like to have gotten more expansion on what some of them are and how they are useful in the game. That being said, I've never liked games that have a massive battery of granular skills like Shadowrun tends to. Too much bookkeeping. I'll take the 19 of Cities any day over that.

Having a hacker in the party means double the adventure prep because you'll need to consider the network in the area of the adventure. Granted, there are some useful advice for doing this in the book, but it's something to keep in mind.

I'm not sure if it's possible (rules as written) to shoot a vehicle occupant in a chase scene. That gets really weird when one of them is a motorcycle. Might be I've missed something.

I've always preferred games that assume basic competence in player characters. Older style games did things like give you a penalty for not having the prerequisite training--which might be more realistic, but it doesn't scratch my heroic adventurer itch. This one's no different, and I'm not a fan. I recognize that's just my personal preference, which you might not share in.

I simply don't care about tracking ammo and encumbrance. Never have. Now, to be honest, I like this encumbrance system better than most--it interacts with the action economy in interesting ways--but who wants to keep track of how many magazines you have on hand and how many bullets are in each one? Give me an abstract way to check for ammo depletion and let me be on my merry way.

I'm of two conflicting minds about the lethality of this system.

• Part of me likes it because of the verisimilitude of getting shot or stabbed being a serious threat to your life. It's annoying when you have an NPC pull a knife on a PC and the person at the table laughs because he can absorb 1d4 damage multiple times before collapsing. Likewise, it's annoying when you as a PC cleave into an opponent with a flippin' chainsaw battleaxe and it doesn't even flinch because it has 100 HP left. Some mutual lethality goes a long way to keeping the tension of the scene high. Other game systems that don't use traditional HP do a much better job of simulating this.
• But then again it's really fun to be a two-fisted, cigar chomping, one-liner-spewing, grade-A, certified badass sometimes. Standing in the hail of gunfire is part of that fantasy. This system doesn't deliver on that. (Unless you count the Heroic rules, which is not presently in Cities). Speaking of the Heroic rules, those are great if you want to be a 40k Space Marine or a literal demigod a la Kevin's Godbound game. Maybe something in between the two extremes of "mere mortal" and "engine of destruction" is in order?

Well, anyway...
This has gotten long. Looks like I'm writing a product review--which was not my intention. Hope this was helpful, especially to you Shadowrun diehards. I love that zany setting but I like the mechanics of CWN much better. They need to get married.

[Jedaii]

@Aavarius Excellent review! I am still very interested. I agree that there seems to be a "hole" in gameplay, somewhere between normal play and the Heroic rules. But, you definitely have my attention and thank you 🙂

[Aavarius]

Glad it was helpful!

[Aavarius]

I have PDF copies of both the Deluxe and Free versions in my possession. Physical copies will be shipping forthwith.

Since the Free version is, well, free, then I don't believe I'm breaking any rules by sharing it with you all at this time. I'm told it will all be available on DriveThruRPG in the near future. This Free version will not include the more fantastical elements that one might adapt to a Shadowrun game.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GoLNjSCj4XUL7fn_PqXfZgAYVLf14vTx/view?usp=sharing

Post here with what you think, yeah?

[Neopopulas]

I've wanted to try a Without Numbers game in awhile but usually i got get hooked because it just feels like DnD with extra steps - learning a new system, etc - but Cities seems like its a unique setting and theme and could be a lot of fun.

[Jedaii]

Just got the DE from the Sine Nomine site .... very, very impressive. After over a decade of searching, CWN is my SR replacement 🤩 It has everything needed without the complex overkill of SR. Hacking and Spellcasting are snap-easy. Plus there's rules for modding tech!

Yeah, CWN is a winner, which I expected from Kevin anyway but I'm impressed. @Aavarius are considering running something?

[Aavarius]

15 hours ago, Jedaii said:

are considering running something?

...No-ish?

I mean, I don't have the bandwidth to be a good, responsive GM right now. It would be ponderously slow. It's possible that changes in several months. The spirit is very much willing, but the flesh is weak right now.

I am, however, quite willing to help out a GM who wants to take the helm. I'm willing to teach a newbie the system--but it's got to be their story and players to manage. I definitely have the bandwidth to be a player, at least.

Sorry that answer is so complicated.

---

On a related note, I am far from a SR expert, but working with some people to figure out how to convert to that setting might be a fun project. I think there are a fair number of SR players around here, so that could turn into an actual running game if enough of them are willing to take the plunge.
 

16 hours ago, Neopopulas said:

I've wanted to try a Without Numbers game in awhile but usually i got get hooked because it just feels like DnD with extra steps - learning a new system, etc - but Cities seems like its a unique setting and theme and could be a lot of fun.

Yes, you're not going to get away with the D&D-like feeling with any of the Without Numbers games, including its flaws. And it's OK if that's not somebody's taste in gaming. Certainly, your mileage may vary.

I would add that CWN does have a setting in the book, but it's pretty half-baked. This is on purpose so you can customize it to your likes. Depending on your needs, that may be either perfect or not enough. Unlike SR, the game's agnostic about what setting you use it with, so they aren't tightly integrated the way SR is with the Sixth World. Instead, there are tools to make your own sandbox.

[Elround4]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:39 PM, Aavarius said:

I like it, but I already had a bias in favor of the system, so take that as you will. Some assorted thoughts:

• Generally speaking it's leaning into the '80s era of cyberpunk.
• I think it's got it covered in the "equipment porn" sense. Vehicles, drones, cyberdecks, cyberware, guns, armor--many of these can be modded or otherwise customized. These will be similar to the way starships are built in Stars Without Number.
• It's grittier than even the usual Systems Without Number games, with a decent chance of scoring double to quadruple damage on any given ranged or explosive attack, location based permanent injuries if you go down from one of these, cyberware maintenance costs, and armor "hit points" that help absorb some of that punishment. There's enough uncertainty built into these subsystems that it's quite possible the rando 1d8 HP ganger with a Saturday night special gets a lucky mortal wound on a chromed-to-the-gills cyborg ninja. Players be warned.
• Since you're coming from a Shadowrun perspective, you're not going to get a replacement setting that's up to the same level of standard. Its' definitely written without a specific setting in mind. Could you bring over the Sixth World? I think so, yes. I'm more familiar with the setting than the mechanics of Shadowrun, but I did keep thinking while reading it that Kevin was keeping that in mind while designing. Some additional thoughts on this if you'll scroll down to my next response.
• There are no character classes, only a list of special abilities players get precious few picks from.
• There are character options to make you the equivalent of a vehicle rigger.
• There's a whole hacking (or decking, if you prefer) subsystem. You plug your fancy portable computer into an object and can then access the local full-dive VR network that underlies the meatspace around your body. You'll encounter demons (i.e. IC) and watchdogs (i.e. other deckers).

In regards to release, I'll be happy to update this space once I get a clearer update. Here's his most recent word on release. Previous estimates put books in hand sometime in August, if memory serves. Seems like that may still be fairly accurate. PDF will be available sooner.

(Click to enlarge)

Yes! The paid version will have all of the following:

• There's a spellcasting system that's similar to the Psychic class from Stars Without Number (go check that out, it's available for free) and a new system for building and summoning spirits into the world. There's also a martial adept equivalent called the "Graced", where magic power is expressed as exceptional physical prowess.
• There are rules for magic items.
• Systems Without Number games have always used "System Strain" as a limit to the amount of chrome you can put in your body, which is functionally equivalent to the Essence limit. There's a subsystem for going crazy if you chrome up too much.
• Names of races are mostly taken from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine, (Eloi, Skyborn, Morlock, and Ogre) but in my opinion they're roughly analogous to Elves, Dwarves, Orks, and Trolls, respectively.
• There is no Technomancer equivalent. The system is flexible enough I don't think it would be impossible to homebrew something like that, but it would take a some forethought.

Yes, it's definitely D&D-ish in approach. There's no getting around that since it's coming from the Old School Renaissance part of gaming. Those are all broadly compatible with each other and backwards compatible with older versions of D&D, but if D&D isn't your bag I can understand why that may not be a selling point.

It's not dramatically different from the other Systems Without Number, so if you're looking for a change of pace this isn't it. There are a few genre inspired subsystems bolted on that you could easily port over to other Systems Without Number games whole cloth. Many of them just use a variant on an already existing sybsystem (e.g. Effort points as a resource). The book includes advice and tables for using a few of these in Kevin's other games. Assorted differences include...

• The more robust cyberware
• The aforementioned damage multiplier chance (Called "Traumatic Hits") is neat but brutal.
• Ranged and Melee AC being different values
• Ablative armor HP
• Permanent injuries
• The magic systems
• Classless character creation
• Vehicle customization and chase rules
• More robust drone customization
• A more robust hacking subsystem

---

Assorted GM thoughts:

The biggest draw for Kevin's games, in my opinion, are the many system agnostic tools. They're just generally jammed full of world, adventure, location, and NPC creation aids to help a GM out. Even if you don't like the game system it still has several resources that may make downloading the free version worth looking at.

All of Kevin's games are built for sandbox play. In my opinion, this one, more than the others, succeeds the best in achieving that end. As a GM it provides me with a systematic way of generating a cyberpunk setting and a systematic way of generating schemes for the various factions to pursue, which in turn systematically generates missions for the PCs to take (or decline) at their whim. It looks like I would always have a stable of interesting things for them to do tied to the setting, sort of like a constantly refreshing menu of choices that I don't have to spend my limited prep time coming up with from scratch.

Of course, if you love building a theme park campaign, I don't see any reason you can't scrap all that systematic generation and just make the story you want to make. No harm in that if it's your preference.

The assumption in the game is that PCs will have regular access to expensive cyberware to boost their power, but the drawback is each bit is a money sink. To keep your cyberware going you need to pay your monthly maintenance costs, which necessitates further adventuring, which itself is made easier with better cyber. It's an intentional feedback loop that is supposed to keep players in the action.

 

It can't be all good, though. Some criticism:

I've never liked how your ability scores in this system almost don't matter. This is a little bit of a problem in modern D&D, but it's more noticeable here. I recognize that a +1 or +2 in this system (especially to a skill check) is not a terrible bonus, but why have the 3 to 18 range on the ability scores if it hardly affects things? There's no meaningful difference between my 13 Str face puncher guy than the 8 Str hacker nerd.

• The question was rhetorical, because the answer is tradition. D&D has a lot of sacred cows it's unwilling to slaughter and playing an OSR game means buying into that tradition.

As a product, the Without Number books aren't all that attractive to look at. They're mostly two columns of black-and-white text with little in the way of art or artistic formatting. I realize Sine Nomine is a one-man operation without a big art budget, but that doesn't make it any less boring to look at. Some more color would not go amiss.

The skill descriptions are fine. That's it. Just fine. They're serviceable. This might be damning with faint praise, but I would like to have gotten more expansion on what some of them are and how they are useful in the game. That being said, I've never liked games that have a massive battery of granular skills like Shadowrun tends to. Too much bookkeeping. I'll take the 19 of Cities any day over that.

Having a hacker in the party means double the adventure prep because you'll need to consider the network in the area of the adventure. Granted, there are some useful advice for doing this in the book, but it's something to keep in mind.

I'm not sure if it's possible (rules as written) to shoot a vehicle occupant in a chase scene. That gets really weird when one of them is a motorcycle. Might be I've missed something.

I've always preferred games that assume basic competence in player characters. Older style games did things like give you a penalty for not having the prerequisite training--which might be more realistic, but it doesn't scratch my heroic adventurer itch. This one's no different, and I'm not a fan. I recognize that's just my personal preference, which you might not share in.

I simply don't care about tracking ammo and encumbrance. Never have. Now, to be honest, I like this encumbrance system better than most--it interacts with the action economy in interesting ways--but who wants to keep track of how many magazines you have on hand and how many bullets are in each one? Give me an abstract way to check for ammo depletion and let me be on my merry way.

I'm of two conflicting minds about the lethality of this system.

• Part of me likes it because of the verisimilitude of getting shot or stabbed being a serious threat to your life. It's annoying when you have an NPC pull a knife on a PC and the person at the table laughs because he can absorb 1d4 damage multiple times before collapsing. Likewise, it's annoying when you as a PC cleave into an opponent with a flippin' chainsaw battleaxe and it doesn't even flinch because it has 100 HP left. Some mutual lethality goes a long way to keeping the tension of the scene high. Other game systems that don't use traditional HP do a much better job of simulating this.
• But then again it's really fun to be a two-fisted, cigar chomping, one-liner-spewing, grade-A, certified badass sometimes. Standing in the hail of gunfire is part of that fantasy. This system doesn't deliver on that. (Unless you count the Heroic rules, which is not presently in Cities). Speaking of the Heroic rules, those are great if you want to be a 40k Space Marine or a literal demigod a la Kevin's Godbound game. Maybe something in between the two extremes of "mere mortal" and "engine of destruction" is in order?

Well, anyway...
This has gotten long. Looks like I'm writing a product review--which was not my intention. Hope this was helpful, especially to you Shadowrun diehards. I love that zany setting but I like the mechanics of CWN much better. They need to get married.

Is this more like Cyberpunk 2020? It looks really interesting.

[Elround4]

Will there also be the Full Body Conversion/total cyborgs/Full Prosthetic Body extreme end of cyberware?

[Aavarius]

Alas, I'm not familiar enough with CP 2020 to answer that with any reliable accuracy. As to your other question, yes, there is a full borg conversion cyberware entry. The full description is as follows:

Quote

Full Body Conversion: The user’s brain and central nervous system are transplanted into a cutting-edge synthetic shell at a cost and difficulty as if this cyber took 4 System Strain. Once converted, the subject has an effective Constitution of 20 for System Strain purpose, but cannot be healed by conventional first aid or medical drugs, requiring ten minutes of repair work with a toolkit to repair any amount of damage, and $250 worth of parts for each hit point to be restored. A full conversion borg no longer requires food, water, air, or sleep, but each day without the latter adds one System Strain due to the mental stress. The conversion requires twelve hours of maintenance every two weeks, and missing it will result in the user’s death in 2d6 days unless the omitted maintenance is performed. Current full-body conversion tech is unstable; after 1d4 years, the subject has a cumulative 5% death chance each year. Borgs do not take Major Injuries and gain a +6 bonus to their Trauma Target that stacks with existing bonuses.

If you took that and stacked on some additional cyberware you could get something approximating Adam Smasher or Robocop, I think.

[dystmesis]

Trying to figure out if the Spellcaster Edge is a downgrade from a partial WWN mage / SWN psychic / Codex classes...

 

What arts from WWN would be fair to reproduce as spellcaster spells, or maybe even which spells from WWN or OSR would be fair game. And of course: How much a theoretical cyberware that grants the ability to cast a spell would cost. 🤪

Edited September 15, 2023 by dystmesis (see edit history)