interest check Interest check: PF1e AP trade

[iantruesilver]

I happen to be running a JR at the moment, and the idea of having Ameiko as a Mary Sue npc is something I'm dealing with. As a first, I didn't outright railroad the PCs into immediately doing things for her and her family, certainly much less embark on a globetrotting trip right away. I'm incorporating some other things in the Sandpoint area first to get them used to Ameiko, so they can naturally feel the want to help when the time comes.

 

Curious, what other things about Ameiko didn't you like @silentfanbrother?

[silentfanbrother]

2 hours ago, iantruesilver said:

I happen to be running a JR at the moment, and the idea of having Ameiko as a Mary Sue npc is something I'm dealing with. As a first, I didn't outright railroad the PCs into immediately doing things for her and her family, certainly much less embark on a globetrotting trip right away. I'm incorporating some other things in the Sandpoint area first to get them used to Ameiko, so they can naturally feel the want to help when the time comes.

 

Curious, what other things about Ameiko didn't you like @silentfanbrother?

Later in the game, it start seeming like PC aren't the main characters, they aren't the ones choosing the story Ameiko is, and that turn a LOT of players off
they railroad the story a bunch in later books too, all centered on Ameiko etc, and players start to feel like it's Ameiko which is doing stuff while they are the companions she has just chosen to tag along with her, plus the whole start in Cool Viking lands and then forced into Tian thing is also something my players complained about
they made characters set in that setting, tied it into the place made connections and then they are fish out of water following a Mary Sue into lands unknown

[iantruesilver]

Yeah I totally get that. It's a struggle for sure. Which I think is why the authors made the whole NPC relationships mechanic, to flesh out the idea that while yes, this story is technically supposed to be Ameiko's story (she was James Jacobs' baby PC after all), that she can't do it on her own without the PCs help, and that they play a great big part in this big grand scheme of Ameiko's destiny.

 

I guess, some will point fingers at whatever they like, and I totally empathize, but this in its very core basis, stripping away the whole journey to the east thing, would kind of be no different if it was any other NPC/faction contracting the party to help achieve their goals?

 

That being said, the book DOES clearly give options for PCs (and GMs) so inclined, to either allow a player to play Ameiko (or one of the other three major NPCs) or… for some unfortunate fate to befall her…

Edited September 21, 2023 by iantruesilver (see edit history)

[silentfanbrother]

2 minutes ago, iantruesilver said:

Yeah I totally get that. It's a struggle for sure. Which I think is why the authors made the whole NPC relationships mechanic, to flesh out the idea that while yes, this story is technically supposed to be Ameiko's story (she was James Jacobs' baby PC after all), that she can't do it on her own without the PCs help, and that they play a great big part in this big grand scheme of Ameiko's destiny.

 

I guess, some will point fingers at whatever they like, and I totally empathize, but this in its very core basis, stripping away the whole journey to the east thing, would kind of be no different if it was any other NPC/faction contracting the party to help achieve their goals?

 

That being said, the book DOES clearly give options for PCs (and GMs) so inclined, to either allow a player to play Ameiko (or one of the other three major NPCs) or… for some unfortunate fate to befall her…

It's my experience from having run it and the game ending cuz players just couldn't handle that they weren't the main characters but it's all table to table thing but JR is one AP I will not touch , other than that I am good with running/playing them all

Azlant one I won't run too because it needs underwater rules later but that's dealable

[iantruesilver]

That's fair. I'll be grappling with that idea later on when we actually embark upon the JR meat and bones with my guys.

 

I think there can be a healthy balance being struck to give the impression that Ameiko is the "wealthy benefactor-to-be". May take some creative storyweaving on my end. That said, it's a bridge yet to be crossed.

[Sensibleshoes]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:53 PM, cailano said:

APs are herculean tasks in PbP. I ran Jade Regent on Myth Weavers on and off for five years and we only made it midway into module four. We had a chance if only I'd been able to maintain focus and momentum, but that's a hard thing to do for four years running.

On the other hand, it was probably the best campaign I've ever been involved in.

They can take 7-10 years on pbp easily. I've seen a Kingmaker game on the Paizo boards where they got through 1 book in 6 years, so it can be even slower. They're hard to get through in real time -- anything that may take a decade to complete is going to be hard. And it's very possible for people's lives to change so they can't keep going way before that.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Sensibleshoes (see edit history)

[iantruesilver]

Okay, I know and understand the point you're trying to make. I'm GMing two AP's currently myself.

 

And yet, while any effort at getting through any campaign is going to take a comparatively longer time to achieve on PbP when put beside a live table.

 

Yet, we are all here. And I would suggest perhaps that we are all here for the same purpose to some extent, are we not? While AP's are particularly long, sure, it is simply a more intensive campaign than a one off.

[silentfanbrother]

I mean I ran WotR AP on discord once
it took us a month to get through the first section of book 1 the underground part

Edited September 22, 2023 by silentfanbrother (see edit history)

[cailano]

19 hours ago, silentfanbrother said:

There are so many APs I would love to play/run but they are a pretty long commitment.

Some APs like Jade Regent just suck esp with us having a mary sue NPC with us and Reign of Winter is all Railroady but other than that I love them all

Trust the guy who ran a five-year JR campaign on this very site: the whole Mary Sue NPC thing is just BS. That's only going to happen if your GM sucks.

In the campaign I had, the NPCs were in the back seat as far as "getting things done," but they added a lot to the RP scenes for the game. Tons of memorable scenes, and I would bet money that any player I had in the campaign (the same four the whole time) would sing its praises.

If you've got a GM willing to put in the work and a group of great players (as I had) Jade Regent can be absolutely epic.

 

[iantruesilver]

I am inclined to agree, @cailano. And you can ask my players on either of my current running campaigns. If anything, they're worried I put too much work and too much thought into the details, and they've even voiced as much.

[Fiery Gift]

So, assuming we come to an agreement - I'll do Second Darkness. I've run it twice on tabletop IRL. The first time I ran it for a group at the public library, it went great. It took a couple years (we only met 2x a month) but we had fun.

My sons used to like to come and watch us play at the library and when they got old enough to have their own group, it was the first one I ran for them.

 

This will be my first time doing it on PbP, but not my first time GMing on PbP.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Fiery Gift (see edit history)

[Rhallan]

I am glad you git your interest, I am not in a place to run or would have offered. Personally I would love to play in a Wrath of the Righteous or Hell's Vengeance game.

[iantruesilver]

So, as we do a little jig to Asmodeus (music to the tune of The Notorious BIG), I thought y'all should know that @Naimless and I have now opened a twin offering, Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance. Y'all are all invited to apply to be a rebellious seditious basterd, or a righteous loyalist of the House of Thrune. :D

linkified

Edited September 26, 2023 by iantruesilver (see edit history)