Character Creation Discussion Thread

[DashtheMad]

Would a gnome alchemist have room here? I have a character sheet upon request and can walk you through his backstory. Willing to adjust as needed.

[VennDygrem]

Saberfan hasn't been on in a few days, though it's understandable given the holidays.
 

1 hour ago, DashtheMad said:

Would a gnome alchemist have room here? I have a character sheet upon request and can walk you through his backstory. Willing to adjust as needed.

Not to speak for the GM, but I have to imagine a gnome alchemist wouldn't go amiss, though we've been encouraged to think big with the race builder, Spheres, and gestalt. I'd suggest throwing together an application like others have been doing. You could make a gnome, and add on extra RP features to get up to 20, maybe call it an alternate, multiversal offshoot type of gnome if you like. If ypu're not as familiar with the Spheres systems, feel free to ask for advice, otherwise I'm sure you can find plenty of ways to make your character work with the game concept as presented!

[DashtheMad]

Two clarifying questions: one, could you elaborate on thinking bigger? And two, there’s an application process? If there is and I jumped a gun, apologies. Wasn’t trying to make a fuss. I’ve never used a forum to find a game before. I assumed when you said ‘build him to 20’ you meant his path?

[TheFred]

The way most games work on MW, there are more interested players than DMs so when setting up a game DMs will ask people to "apply" by writing up their character concept, then they just pick the ones they like the best. Not all games work this way (sometimes people just do first come, first served, for example) and arguably it's not a great process (different DMs use different variations on theme) but it's a result of supply and demand.

By "build him to 20", I think VennDygrem was referring to the fact that, for this game specifically, you can create a race of up to 20 race points using the PF race-builder. Gnomes are less than 20 RP so you could add more stuff until you got to 20 (or you could equally just assemble different stuff that still totals to 20, but if you want to be Gnome-like, you probably want at least some of the abilities that Gnomes have).

[DashtheMad]

As for the application, thanks for clarifying. Just submitted mine. As for the RP, I’ve never done that. Sorry for such rookie stuff but before this it was living rooms and home brewed rolling mechanics to assign abilities scores, or did I misinterpret. Either way it is clear I need a YouTube tutorial real quick. Any one got one I can look up to help explain?

[Faeryl_]

Most games don't allow players to use the "Race Builder" in the first place, so it's understandable that you've no experience with it. If you haven't found the page yet, you can look here for the stuff about creating/altering a custom/existing race. I feel that it's pretty straightforward to understand, but YMMV.

The gist of it is that each feature has an RP (race point) cost, such as creature type (Humanoid, Fey, etc) or default size (Small/Medium/Large). You get to pick and choose what you want your race to have among all these lovely options. The normal races (all the official ones) have a starting amount of RP based on the abilities they each have. The goal here is to build to your satisfaction so long as your total RP does not exceed 20.

[VennDygrem]

I don't know of any YT tutorial about these sorts of houserules and third party systems, but we're generally pretty welcoming of newbies to Play by Post and happy to help.

For your character info, the GM has mentioned that we're pretty free to make up information about what worlds our characters are from, because this game won't be limited to just one campaign setting (like Golarion, Forgotten Realms, etc.).

The Spheres of Power, Spheres of Might, and Spheres of Guile rules are available at http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/ which will include rules and all character options. Given this game's houserules, if you're making a gnome alchemist, you'll want to either use one of the third pary archetypes for the Alchemist class or use one or more of the Spheres classes and the Alchemy sphere; Alternatively, there are options in the system to recreate a traditional alchemist by turning spherecasting 'spells' into consumable elixirs/potions.

To build on what Faeryl said above, you can start with the Gnome example (which comes out to 10 race points) and search through the page to find 10 more points worth of abilities to add or modify what's provided in the example. You could, for instance, add the halfling's luck bonus to saving throws, a dwarf's stability trait, and even give them wings and a fly speed; you could boost their ability scores and change their size to large call it a giantkin gnome, or whatever else fits your imagination.

This game's houserules are maybe not the easiest to get used to for someone new to them (especially combining them with gestalt class rules), but they're not impossible to pick up. Spend some time reading through the links and see if it inspires you!

[Yamazaki]

40 minutes ago, VennDygrem said:

I don't know of any YT tutorial about these sorts of houserules and third party systems, but we're generally pretty welcoming of newbies to Play by Post and happy to help.

You don't - but I have a link! It's from the Ultimate Spheres of Power kickstarter, IIRC. It won't cover everything, but it's a start.

[Saberfan]

On 12/30/2023 at 6:01 PM, Taggerung559 said:

How's HP being determined after level 1? Take average? Always max? something else?

Treat all HP rolls as maximum for both characters and class companions for which it is relevant.

On 12/30/2023 at 7:03 PM, MysteryNo1 said:

Is there a sphere equivalent to the slayer's spawn slayer archetype?

Unless I'm mistaken, you can take the Spheres archetype for the Slayer and the Spawn Slayer archetype at the same time.

On 12/30/2023 at 7:58 PM, namo said:

FYI, my current build (not yet posted in full) has Mediator's Mien, the Silver Tongued racial ability (a watered down Diabolical Negotiator), though not Friend of a Friend (which is on my "to consider" list), and a pretty optimized Diplo check. I'm purposefully staying away from full-on Diplomancer since IMO it just forces the DM to houserule Diplomacy anyway (e.g. adopting one of the many Diplo variants that exist... and I now see it was addressed in another post just a bit further down).

For this PC, it's a tool in the arsenal with Bluff & Disguise more than the full focus.

 

@Saberfan Would you allow this optional rule that extends the notion of utility talent/utility progression to SoP / SoM?

I would allow that as an option, yes.

On 12/30/2023 at 11:00 PM, droobles said:

since technique crafting is available, are martial contracts available?

Martial Contracts are available.

On 12/30/2023 at 11:57 PM, CRook said:

Can the Leadership Sphere Mystic Craftsmen talent craft a magic item using the skills and feats of my Leadership Sphere Mage cohort from Magic Cohort, and would it do so as I would, or as an allied PC, with the -2 penalty to the check if so?

Would followers making Profession checks to earn gold pieces when in a settlement with the Leadership Sphere Merchants talent benefit from my Vocation Sphere Industrious Worker talent and Entrepreneur talent? (So they would be rolling for an additional 50% every week, and rolling for platinum pieces, not gold pieces, as an example). The Merchants talent also states '"your followers collectively make Profession checks [emphasis mine] using your Diplomacy..." Is this one weekly check per type of follower talent (Merchants, Healers, Craftsmen, Alchemists, etc), or somehow otherwise calculated?

 

 

 

Mystic Craftsmen use the normal rules for crafting as a PC would, with all that entails, unless otherwise noted in the description.

I would rule that Vocation talents are only applicable to your own checks unless otherwise noted in their description.

As for how followers make their collective checks, I would rule that each type of follower makes that collective check for their respective trade. It would be too all-or-nothing if all of them made one pooled roll.

On 12/31/2023 at 1:58 AM, Colette said:

Does this mean that a single purchase of Mechanical Ranged Weaponry is equivalent to three purchases?

Does anyone who would gain the gunsmith class feature or the Gunsmithing feat gain gun training 1, or does that apply only to the actual gunslinger class?

Since you are using the limitations on influencing attitudes, does this mean that silver tongued, Diabolical Negotiator, and so on still need to invoke a motivation or give a suitable gift in order to shift attitude more than one step? Or do they bypass such a need?

Are any of the variant rules in chapter 1 of Legends of the Spheres, available as a free preview here, in play in this game? I am interested in all of them.

If you are allowing Spheres archetypes for Starfinder classes, is the envoy (cynosure) allowed? It is rather strong, since a 1-level dip grants "roll twice and take higher" on all d20 rolls for the character.

You are correct when it comes to how Guns Everywhere interacts with Mechanical Ranged Weaponry.

While not RAW, I would rule that Gunsmith/Gunsmithing will upgrade for everyone under the Guns Everywhere designation regardless of whether they gain the ability from the Gunslinger class specifically.

Out of the rule variants from Legends of the Spheres, I would allow Combat and Magic Talent Substitution, Utility Talents in Non-Skill Spheres, Unlocked Leverage with Combat Spheres, and Techniques.

I had completely forgotten about the Starfinder Envoy's existence. I will make a note that one is banned now that you have reminded me of it.

On 12/31/2023 at 4:02 PM, Taggerung559 said:

So, the anemic general drawback for casting traditions makes it so that taking slashing or piercing damage causes you to start bleeding for 1, plus 1 per 10 MSB (stacking with any other bleeding inflicted on you). It also removes bleeding immunity and makes you subject to bleeding if you weren't already. The duelist sphere's scar tissue talent reduces bleed damage taken by 1, plus 1 per 5 BAB. As written that's not immunity to bleeding, and you're still subject to bleeding, but even with a wizard's BAB progression scar tissue will always reduce the bleeding from the anemic drawback to 0 (unless there's also a separate bleed effect active you at the time).

I don't think I'll go for the combo either way, but what's your stance on the pairing?

My stance is that all drawbacks in Spheres should not be completely canceled out by other mechanical choices.

On 12/31/2023 at 5:21 PM, PerilousAdventures said:

Just a simple question but guessing that's the case when I use the faction sphere (in Guile) with spellcasting service or Wizard retainers, is it fair to assume that it will be spherecasting instead of spellcasting right?

 

That is correct.

17 hours ago, Master_Enceladus said:

@Saberfan I have a question regarding one of the Reliquary Keeper (Occultist Archetype) class features needing clarification.

For the entry on Magical Talents, it notes that a magical talent is gained at every even level though does not specify what or where these should be selected from. Are these additional magical talents suppose to match what magic spheres are selected for the implements? Or does this mean that another magic sphere is selected which is different from those selected for the associated implements?

 

If it does not specify, then you are free to choose which ones.

16 hours ago, Rhallan said:

 

Is the Leadership Sphere allowed? I just want to make sure I understand properly.

 

Also, are the portals/doorways that the players can open limited in what can pass through them? For example, only person sized and what that person carry?

The Leadership Sphere is allowed.

The portals crafted by Gatewalking function just like the portals create by the Gate spell, meaning that you can choose the size up to a certain point, you can allow other beings through the gate, and there is no functional limit on what you can carry through it beyond just making sure whatever it is will fit within the portal's dimensions.

14 hours ago, Thramzorean said:

I believe this question is still open, and related to this, how do I calculate the hit points of my character's phantom please @Saberfan

The HP of all party members and their relevant companions should be calculated as if you rolled the maximum each time.

4 hours ago, DashtheMad said:

Would a gnome alchemist have room here? I have a character sheet upon request and can walk you through his backstory. Willing to adjust as needed.

A gnome alchemist would have room in this game, but there are two things to bear in mind. The first is that this is a Spheres game and so the Alchemist class would need to use the Spheres version from the wiki. The second is that there are no precrafted races and, instead, everyone must build their own race with 20 RP using Pathfinder's race builder; that doesn't mean that you can't play a gnome, but you will need to build it yourself even if all you do is add enough RP worth of racial abilities to the base gnome until it fits the 20 RP criteria.

[Saberfan]

The above post should answer the lingering questions people had, but don't hesitate to reiterate something if I somehow missed it. I apologize for not getting to them sooner, but I set aside both New Year's Eve and New Year's Day aside for the family.

[TheFred]

Can you tell us any more about the guild? Are we all essentially just mercenaries, taking contracts from them, or is there some more specific adventure hook planned? Does the guild have any political or moral leanings? Would evil characters, for example, be accepted into the guild (assuming that anyone even knew that they were evil, of course), or would there be some limits?

On a similar note, are the party supposed to be a group of Realmwardens who have joined together by choice? Have we been working together for some time?

Do only PCs get one feat/level, or everyone? I'm thinking animal companions, eidolons, Conjuration companions, cohorts, etc.

You're using the race-builder but are the talents from Spheres of Origins allowed via the Extra Origin Talent feat? (Most of these suck and are no way worth a feat, but it's a way to get some things that aren't so easily available and maybe not from the race-builder)

[TheFred]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:16 PM, Saberfan said:

After checking with a friend of mine who once worked in the design space, I've confirmed that Flurry of Blows and Spell Combat are indeed incompatible because they are both special full-attack actions.

This isn't helped by Paizo's confusing wordings and flip-flopping on rulings, but I believe the current stance is that Spell Combat does work with stuff like Haste even though it's its own special full-round action (note: not actually the same thing as a special full-attack action) which implies it probably ought to work with Flurry too - the slightly ambiguous bit I think is the "he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon" bit.

Of course, Spheres already makes Magus super-dippable, especially in gestalt; making us choose Sphere Magus/Arcane Weaponeer OR Shadow Boxer Monk is probably a good thing. 😃

[MysteryNo1]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:11 PM, MysteryNo1 said:

@Saberfan This works? Or do we need to take sphere archetypes only for paizo classes?

@Saberfan You missed this. My question was half-answered. I was opting for a general answer. I take it that spell-less paizo classes are acceptable as long as you take a spheres archetype first before other combinations?

Edited January 3 by MysteryNo1 (see edit history)

[Rhallan]

This probably a dumb question, but for clarification purposes if something grants "proficiency with all technological weapons" will that apply to guns as well?

[Saberfan]

1 hour ago, TheFred said:

Can you tell us any more about the guild? Are we all essentially just mercenaries, taking contracts from them, or is there some more specific adventure hook planned? Does the guild have any political or moral leanings? Would evil characters, for example, be accepted into the guild (assuming that anyone even knew that they were evil, of course), or would there be some limits?

On a similar note, are the party supposed to be a group of Realmwardens who have joined together by choice? Have we been working together for some time?

Do only PCs get one feat/level, or everyone? I'm thinking animal companions, eidolons, Conjuration companions, cohorts, etc.

You're using the race-builder but are the talents from Spheres of Origins allowed via the Extra Origin Talent feat? (Most of these suck and are no way worth a feat, but it's a way to get some things that aren't so easily available and maybe not from the race-builder)

The characters are not mercenaries, per se, even though they do accept contracts from the Realmwardens in exchange for compensation. This distinction is important because not every contract is explicitly about combat despite us as gamers knowing that it will likely be inevitable at some point. That said, the guild does function similarly to a loosely-organized planar adventurer's guild and that was an intentional design choice on my end.

As for whether there is a more specific adventure hook planned for later, that will depend on the characters. If the final party sticks with the game long enough and expresses an interest in a more focused and cohesive storyline, I have a concept ready for just that. But I am perfectly fine with keeping this as an episodic game if people never express interest in a more typical plotline.

The guild doesn't have any stated political or moral leanings, although they are not likely to take particularly unsavory contracts or from especially dubious individuals.

The Realmwardens will generally accept anyone as members so long as they have a decent work ethic, some level of skill, and are not depraved psychopaths. A good or even neutral alignment is not required, but members are held to a minimum of standards while employed at the guild, especially when on the job, so that the guild's reputation isn't tarnished. A small faction of the guild's higher-ups have less charitable views of evil beings, but are willing to tolerate them to a certain degree so long as they do their jobs well and don't besmirch the Realmwarden's good name.

All Realmwardens are there by choice and are never coerced to join, although the organization does offer extra incentives towards prospects with particularly valuable skills.

It's up to the players whether they have known each other for a long time or they are just meeting each other for the first time. The party could even have a mix of both, with some having adventured together in the past and others being complete strangers or having just met the others in passing around the guildhall. Adventuring parties are generally a self-selection within the guild rather than a standardized way of organizing members; there are even some particularly powerful or foolhardy members who take on contracts solo.

Only PCs get feat-a-level treatment.

I honestly hadn't thought about it when creating this game, but I would be fine with people taking the Extra Origin Talent feat.

33 minutes ago, MysteryNo1 said:

@Saberfan You missed this. My question was half-answered. I was opting for a general answer. I take it that spell-less paizo classes are acceptable as long as you take a spheres archetype first before other combinations?

All Paizo classes with a Spheres conversion are acceptable so long as the appropriate Spheres archetypes- or in the case of Kineticist, variant classes- are implemented first.

18 minutes ago, Rhallan said:

This probably a dumb question, but for clarification purposes if something grants "proficiency with all technological weapons" will that apply to guns as well?

Guns are technological weapons, so that applies to them as well.