Character Creation Discussion Thread

[Saberfan]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:56 AM, Thramzorean said:

@Saberfan my character would be looking to obtain immunity to sleep from the Origins list. As noted here. I'm not entirely sure the proper mechanic, while I think it is a reasonably balanced narrow option does the prerequisite then require it to use two feats? Would it be possible to call it a 3RP option (just as an example)? Or is this heading into an area you'd prefer to avoid and I should simply drop the idea, heh.

I'm fine with that particular Origin being purchased with a feat, but only if it's prerequisite is likewise purchased.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:45 AM, Inquisitor D said:

I was less looking at a specific item and more the whole paradigm of using Starfinder armor. The Tech Guide at least gives a solid basis for energy rifles, but it feels like their armor offerings are more slim. Mainline Starfinder has stuff like power armor. When looking at future tech, that's tempting.

Buuut the guide doesn't seem like a particularly legit conversion? It has you using the same prices for items at our level for a start - cheap as hell in PF terms. It also doesn't really explain how to convert KAC and EAC bonuses. I'd assume you just add KAC to regular AC and EAC to touch, but... That's *really* good for the price. Suspiciously so. The conversion suggests balancing that by imposing Starfinder's magical item restrictions on any PC using SF armor, but... That seems easy to dodge. It's just limiting number of items, not their power, and PF can support a build where you just have a few powerful magical items.

So yeah, my lean would be no TBH. Just wanted to see if I missed something in there, cos it'd be fun to access if possible.

(Sidenote, are you okay with alt aps, or would you rather I just changed my current ap?)

After looking through the rules for Starfinder item conversions, I'll have to agree that it's a no simply because it would require a decent amount of work to mold and conform to Pathfinder standards. There is a decent amount of tech out there for use and I'll toss in some items if/when the party takes on contracts in more sci-fi/sci-fantasy contracts.

I'm okay with alternate submissions and don't have any sort of upper limit on how many a person can submit.

18 hours ago, ahyangyi said:

Hi, I'm late to the party...

Does it still make sense to start working on a character now? How many characters are submitted?

You still have around three weeks to complete a submission, so I'd say that you have plenty of time.

11 hours ago, DnD_Jedi said:

I have a question I wish to ask.

Admittedly, this is more of a confirmation than anything else. But non-sphere remakes of classes, such as Legendary Games's Kineticist, are not allowed are they? Even if they are going to be used in conjunction with the Sphere archetypes?

Non-Spheres versions of classes are not allowed, as this is a Spheres game first and foremost. That said, someone made a Legendary Spheres Kineticist and I'm willing to look that over if you can find the conversion.

8 hours ago, CRook said:

Are feats and effects that improve Leadership (Leadership value, cohort level difference) applicable to Leadership spheres cohorts?

For example, if something would increase a Leadership score, would it treat Diplomacy ranks as higher by that or some value for the purposes of cohort HD, or the CR recruitable by Advanced Cohort?

Those are not applicable to Leadership Sphere cohorts as of the last errata I remember reading.

4 hours ago, dalamb said:

I think I once knew the answer to this, but have forgotten...

If I gestalt spherecaster / non-spherecaster, can I take Advanced Magic Training on the basis of having a spherecaster class, then "apply" it to the non-spherecaster side to get an additional +CAM spell points on the basis of not having any spherecasting levels on that side?

Advanced Magic Training explicitly states that it does not give such an increase.

[droobles]

are legendary classes on the table? By that I mean, using the legendary fighter with the spheres archetype (runesinger).

 

And I just ask this because I am trying to build a pure martial Eihander duelist (burning a couple of feats to get a veil or two) and even with a Fighter (runesinger) 9/Conscript 9 and a feat every level I am still lacking feats 😂

 

PS: So sad that most material related to aldori swordmaster involve full attacks or it is just completely redundant using the fencing sphere.

Edited January 11 by droobles (see edit history)

[dalamb]

Envoy's Unyielding Voice at 8th level means a Verbal Spell casting drawback has no effect. Does that mean it's inappropriate to take that drawback for Incanter on the other side of the gestalt?

[Inquisitor D]

6 hours ago, Saberfan said:

After looking through the rules for Starfinder item conversions, I'll have to agree that it's a no simply because it would require a decent amount of work to mold and conform to Pathfinder standards. There is a decent amount of tech out there for use and I'll toss in some items if/when the party takes on contracts in more sci-fi/sci-fantasy contracts.

I'm okay with alternate submissions and don't have any sort of upper limit on how many a person can submit.

Perfectly reasonable. Thank you kindly for giving it a look over. Looking forward to what you offer!

And thanks again for the okay on alts! I don't think I'll need more than 2, but I do wanna try this alt character idea. Is the Technomancy sphere okay? I believe it's by the same people who made the tech sphere and they're pretty closely linked, but want to be sure.

[DnD_Jedi]

13 hours ago, Saberfan said:

Non-Spheres versions of classes are not allowed, as this is a Spheres game first and foremost. That said, someone made a Legendary Spheres Kineticist and I'm willing to look that over if you can find the conversion.

... Wait, I'm confused.

The question isn't 'Can I use non-sphere versions of classes'. Is it 'Can I use X version of a class, alongside Y Spheres archetype'? You said someone made a Legendary Sphere's Kineticist, but that is just the Legendary Kineiticst with the Scion Archetype, isn't it? They are compatible. Same with drobbler requesting the Legendary Fighter using the Runesinger archetype, becoming an Expert practitioner whilst having the Legendary Fighter's class features.

So, is this a yes, a no, or an 'I will look at each Legendary class individually and then decide'?

Edit: I also have another question about the Scion. Specifically, when it comes to the Aether element. The Aether element has various effects that are extremely similar to the Telekineses sphere. Such as Aether's basic talent being the Telekinesis sphere initial ability, both of them having a variation of Telekinetic Finesse, and Distorted Area being very similar to the Kinetic field. Because of this, is there any chance that I can treat the Aether basic wild talent as the Telekineses Sphere with the Passive Telekinesis drawback (as the Destruction Sphere will be acting in place of my Telekinetic blast) and be capable of taking Telekinses talents as wild talents if I so wish? I would also think that my Telekinses caster level would be equal to my Scion level, but I can understand if that might be a bit much.

Edited January 11 by DnD_Jedi (see edit history)

[dalamb]

Will Knowledge (history, local, nobility, geography) be useful on separate planes? If they work at all, perhaps the justification is some supernatural ability to absorb the new plane's culture quickly?

This affects whether certain Spheres of Guile trades are useful or not.

[Taggerung559]

This was asked already, with the answer being

Quote

I am keeping the Knowledge abilities the same for simple ease of use. That said, I would allow for Lore (Homeworld) to cover a wide range of topics for a singular world to be taken as part of your Background Skills.

 

[Saberfan]

17 hours ago, droobles said:

are legendary classes on the table? By that I mean, using the legendary fighter with the spheres archetype (runesinger).

 

And I just ask this because I am trying to build a pure martial Eihander duelist (burning a couple of feats to get a veil or two) and even with a Fighter (runesinger) 9/Conscript 9 and a feat every level I am still lacking feats 😂

 

PS: So sad that most material related to aldori swordmaster involve full attacks or it is just completely redundant using the fencing sphere.

So long as the Legendary Classes are compatible with a given Spheres archetype and you take those to turn them into a Spheres class, I am fine with that. I just don't want pure Legendary Classes in this game given that the whole schtick of this game is to be Spheres-only, if that makes sense.

15 hours ago, dalamb said:

Envoy's Unyielding Voice at 8th level means a Verbal Spell casting drawback has no effect. Does that mean it's inappropriate to take that drawback for Incanter on the other side of the gestalt?

My stance is that Drawbacks should nearly always supercede features that would otherwise permanently invalidate them.

11 hours ago, Inquisitor D said:

Perfectly reasonable. Thank you kindly for giving it a look over. Looking forward to what you offer!

And thanks again for the okay on alts! I don't think I'll need more than 2, but I do wanna try this alt character idea. Is the Technomancy sphere okay? I believe it's by the same people who made the tech sphere and they're pretty closely linked, but want to be sure.

The only Sphere that comes to mind that I'm against people taking is the Bear sphere, so Technomancy is fine.

11 hours ago, DnD_Jedi said:

... Wait, I'm confused.

The question isn't 'Can I use non-sphere versions of classes'. Is it 'Can I use X version of a class, alongside Y Spheres archetype'? You said someone made a Legendary Sphere's Kineticist, but that is just the Legendary Kineiticst with the Scion Archetype, isn't it? They are compatible. Same with drobbler requesting the Legendary Fighter using the Runesinger archetype, becoming an Expert practitioner whilst having the Legendary Fighter's class features.

So, is this a yes, a no, or an 'I will look at each Legendary class individually and then decide'?

Edit: I also have another question about the Scion. Specifically, when it comes to the Aether element. The Aether element has various effects that are extremely similar to the Telekineses sphere. Such as Aether's basic talent being the Telekinesis sphere initial ability, both of them having a variation of Telekinetic Finesse, and Distorted Area being very similar to the Kinetic field. Because of this, is there any chance that I can treat the Aether basic wild talent as the Telekineses Sphere with the Passive Telekinesis drawback (as the Destruction Sphere will be acting in place of my Telekinetic blast) and be capable of taking Telekinses talents as wild talents if I so wish? I would also think that my Telekinses caster level would be equal to my Scion level, but I can understand if that might be a bit much.

Sorry for misunderstanding the question, I just thought people were asking for the baseline Legendary Classes without Spheres. My answer is "if they're compatible and you take the appropriate Spheres archetype, I will allow them". The goal of the game was to have a Spheres-centric experience and I didn't want anything infringing on that design choice.

Also, the Spheres Kineticist I've referred to is actually a homebrew that ties specific Sphere packages to the various Kineticist Elements and lets people choose either Sphere or Kineticist Talents when they would normally gain Kineticist Talents. It also does a few things with homogenizing the Destruction Sphere and Kinetic Blast. But I'm honestly fine with people just taking the normal Spheres archetype for Kineticist rather than forcing that homebrew on them.

For your question with the Scion, I would be willing to allow that interaction in most circumstances. There are a few niche interactions that were highlighted in the Spheres Kineticist homebrew as potential problems, so I'll need to rule on individual ability interactions to make sure everything's kosher.

2 hours ago, dalamb said:

Will Knowledge (history, local, nobility, geography) be useful on separate planes? If they work at all, perhaps the justification is some supernatural ability to absorb the new plane's culture quickly?

This affects whether certain Spheres of Guile trades are useful or not.

To quote an answer I posted earlier in the thread, "I am keeping the Knowledge abilities the same for simple ease of use. That said, I would allow for Lore (Homeworld) to cover a wide range of topics for a singular world to be taken as part of your Background Skills."

[DnD_Jedi]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:47 PM, Saberfan said:

Sorry for misunderstanding the question, I just thought people were asking for the baseline Legendary Classes without Spheres. My answer is "if they're compatible and you take the appropriate Spheres archetype, I will allow them". The goal of the game was to have a Spheres-centric experience and I didn't want anything infringing on that design choice.

Also, the Spheres Kineticist I've referred to is actually a homebrew that ties specific Sphere packages to the various Kineticist Elements and lets people choose either Sphere or Kineticist Talents when they would normally gain Kineticist Talents. It also does a few things with homogenizing the Destruction Sphere and Kinetic Blast. But I'm honestly fine with people just taking the normal Spheres archetype for Kineticist rather than forcing that homebrew on them.

For your question with the Scion, I would be willing to allow that interaction in most circumstances. There are a few niche interactions that were highlighted in the Spheres Kineticist homebrew as potential problems, so I'll need to rule on individual ability interactions to make sure everything's kosher.

No problem, mistakes are mistakes (how do you divide the quote up by the by? I can't figure it out...)

And, can you link this Sphere's Kineticist homebrew you are discussing? I am very curious to have a look at it and see what it does. Especially if it does link the Kineticist elements to more than just the Destruction Sphere. I can already think of a few examples: Aether and Telekinesis obviously, but also Air & Water might play with the Weather Sphere, Fire with the Nature' Sphere, Earth might go for Creation, Wood goes for Life, and Void goes for Death or perhaps Darkness as well.

Yes, I would appreciate it if you can link this homebrew for us to see.

Edit: Flavour question, considering that we have clear MTG inspiration here (Planeswalker vs Gatewalker, main base is a massive city as a plane, similar to Ravinca, Gatewalker's having a 'spark'), can I take it a bit further and have my character's spark 'awaken' during a traumatic event, leading to an uncontrolled, immediate shift to another plane? Something that can't be repeated, as it takes 3 minutes to make a gate otherwise. But it sounds like it has fun story potential. Plus, it feels like not every Gatewalker would be aware of their powers or their full possibilities, so it would be a nice way to introduce an isolated setting to the wider Multiverse.

Edit 2: I had a look at the Martial Contracts, and spotted the Light Body Technique optional rules, which feels extremely in flavour for the character I wish to make. Is there any trade I can make to gain the benefits of the Light Body Technique?

Edit 3: Though by RAW it does not apply. Can we make Cascade Failure also apply a penalty to CMD vs CMB checks from the Destructive Blast? I'm thinking of having Air Blast be my primary Destructive Blast outside of the normal Destructive Blast, and being able to pick up a way to nerf a creature's CMD against the Bull Rush from it would be deeply appreciated. Same reasoning with Empty Infusion as well.

Edited January 14 by DnD_Jedi (see edit history)

[dalamb]

Sorry I missed the previous answer about knowledge skills, but I also don't quite understand it. It sounds like the basic "regional knowledge" skills are indeed useless but lore for single planets works?

[VennDygrem]

My reading of the answer is that you still take Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Local), etc., using them as you would in any normal setting, no matter where you are.
Treat them as you would in any other game.
Additionally, you could take Lore (Your Homeworld) as a background skill, and that one skill would cover practically all of the other knowledge categories, but only for that one world.

Edited January 11 by VennDygrem (see edit history)

[TheRedGoat]

So here's a question that may actually give me some direction on how to build a character, what does the linguistics skill even do in a game where we're always under the effects of tongues?

Did I miss something where it isn't the full effect? Will it matter to really learn other languages? Should I consider specifying extra languages learned are of the signed or braille variety?

[Laird Ichofox]

3 minutes ago, TheRedGoat said:

So here's a question that may actually give me some direction on how to build a character, what does the linguistics skill even do in a game where we're always under the effects of tongues?

Did I miss something where it isn't the full effect? Will it matter to really learn other languages? Should I consider specifying extra languages learned are of the signed or braille variety?

Tongues only works for speaking: It doesn't let you read languages you don't know

[TheRedGoat]

Yes, but I suppose the idea for me is to make a gimmick build and then scale everything back to being something functional.

And to that end, I can imagine a lonesome scholar finding inspiration in traveling the multiverse to learn just how many different cultures they can come across and recording them for posterity. Of course they have to pay the bills somehow. For instance, what if something like Necril, a language of the dead, needed to be translated into another dialect?

Edited January 12 by TheRedGoat (see edit history)

[CRook]

Does having the benefits of a Martial Contract count as having the Conscript Combat Sphere Specialization for the purpose of raising the BAB or Skill Ranks to Conscript+1 for the chosen Sphere as per said class' feature description, or is it solely the abilities listed?