RedDingo Posted January 12 Clone Share Posted January 12 What's your stance on the Weapon Building system from the Weapon Master's handbook? Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illogictree Posted January 12 Clone Share Posted January 12 Here's a really dumb question: do the classes in the gestalt have to be different? Could someone build an incanter//incanter if they wanted to get a ridiculous amount of talents? Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taggerung559 Posted January 12 Clone Share Posted January 12 (edited) @Illogictree The classes need to be different. From the gestalt rules: Quote To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two classes from those the GM is accepting in a campaign. (You can also choose any variant classes and archetypes, though you cannot combine two versions of the same class.) That being said, there are often comparable ways to get at something like that. Sphere wizard for instance is nearly identical to an incanter that took a sphere specialization and familiar (same class skills even last I checked), and incanter/sphere wizard is a valid combination. Edited January 12 by Taggerung559 (see edit history) Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droobles Posted January 13 Author Clone Share Posted January 13 7 hours ago, CRook said: Does having the benefits of a Martial Contract count as having the Conscript Combat Sphere Specialization for the purpose of raising the BAB or Skill Ranks to Conscript+1 for the chosen Sphere as per said class' feature description, or is it solely the abilities listed? As written It gives you the abilities only. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRook Posted January 13 Clone Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, droobles said: As written It gives you the abilities only. I'm mostly in agreement, but I like to double check. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taggerung559 Posted January 13 Clone Share Posted January 13 Apropos of nothing, I looked a bit into boosting caster level. If you have a full caster on one side, that's CL 9. If that full caster is a thaumaturge and you use forbidden lore, that's CL 13. If the other side includes 6 levels of prodigy and you get your sequence up to 6 links, that's CL 16 due to inspired sequence. If you have a +5 implement (normally too expensive, but it's only 25,000 gp if you craft it yourself, cheaper with certain traits) that's CL 21 with the chosen sphere. If your second half also includes a level of either sorcerer with a focus sphere, sphere wizard, or incanter with a sphere specialization, that's CL 22 with the chosen sphere. If you have one of a number of casting boons and satisfy the relevant conditions that can be another +2 for a CL of 24. You can probably do some interesting things with a CL of 24, and I'm sure I missed something that can bring it higher. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Ichofox Posted January 13 Clone Share Posted January 13 9 minutes ago, Taggerung559 said: Apropos of nothing, I looked a bit into boosting caster level. If you have a full caster on one side, that's CL 9. If that full caster is a thaumaturge and you use forbidden lore, that's CL 13. If the other side includes 6 levels of prodigy and you get your sequence up to 6 links, that's CL 16 due to inspired sequence. If you have a +5 implement (normally too expensive, but it's only 25,000 gp if you craft it yourself, cheaper with certain traits) that's CL 21 with the chosen sphere. If your second half also includes a level of either sorcerer with a focus sphere, sphere wizard, or incanter with a sphere specialization, that's CL 22 with the chosen sphere. If you have one of a number of casting boons and satisfy the relevant conditions that can be another +2 for a CL of 24. You can probably do some interesting things with a CL of 24, and I'm sure I missed something that can bring it higher. If you're gonna do Thaumaturge Forbidden Lore shenannigans, gotta take the Knight of Willpower archetype to increase the Forbidden lore bonus by 50%. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalamb Posted January 13 Clone Share Posted January 13 Do the rules/shenanigans really allow caster level to go above character level? Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFred Posted January 13 Clone Share Posted January 13 (edited) The rules has always allowed that (see: Orange Prism Ioun Stone) and in Spheres it’s by design (that’s the point of implements). In USoP they nerfed a bunch of boosts (mostly made things not stack, etc) though for the most part it’s only really bad if you get abusively high CL and use them in certain ways. Destructive Blasts get pretty deadly (but, still, meh) and stuff like Permanent Transformation goes from cheesy to cheesier (even more so since you can use painful/expensive boosts like Forbidden Lore or Overchannel without any real drawbacks). Arcanists can boost their CL. Medium is a cheesier way in gestalt specifically (though it does work in regular games up to point e.g. with Gift for Magic). My own app actually boosts CL quite a bit as it’s taking advantage of a talent that needs quite a high one. A potential issue with Knight of Willpower is that you can’t combine it with archetypes that alter the backlash (Experimentalist, Eldritch Cultist) - those make Forbidden Lore great for buffing as you can just wait out the backlash effect, whereas KoW will be giving you CL penalties before too long. Pros and cons. Edited January 13 by TheFred (see edit history) Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VennDygrem Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Taggerung559 said: Apropos of nothing, I looked a bit into boosting caster level. If you have a full caster on one side, that's CL 9. If that full caster is a thaumaturge and you use forbidden lore, that's CL 13. If the other side includes 6 levels of prodigy and you get your sequence up to 6 links, that's CL 16 due to inspired sequence. If you have a +5 implement (normally too expensive, but it's only 25,000 gp if you craft it yourself, cheaper with certain traits) that's CL 21 with the chosen sphere. If your second half also includes a level of either sorcerer with a focus sphere, sphere wizard, or incanter with a sphere specialization, that's CL 22 with the chosen sphere. If you have one of a number of casting boons and satisfy the relevant conditions that can be another +2 for a CL of 24. You can probably do some interesting things with a CL of 24, and I'm sure I missed something that can bring it higher. One thing to note, there is a limit on how high an enhancement bonus you can craft, limited to your caster level/msb per crafting rules. I'm not sure if that can be gotten around or not. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taggerung559 Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 (edited) It's been a bit since I looked at it so I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that's one of the crafting "requirements" you can ignore by increasing the craft DC by 5 (but again, it's been a while since I looked at it, so you might not be able to do that with spheres magic crafting like you can normal magic crafting). Edited January 14 by Taggerung559 (see edit history) Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thramzorean Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 (edited) For Spheres the DC increases by 5 if you're missing talents but base crafting doesn't apply for caster level or MSB. And the -5 for missing talents cannot be applied to compounds, spell completion, or spell trigger items which the caster must have all prerequisites for. However if you take the Versatile Crafter feat it will allow the +5 DC for caster level increase. (Along with making stuff without the base sphere) Edited January 14 by Thramzorean (see edit history) Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFred Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 An Armourist or Masked Adept Vigilante, for example can get a high bonus implement for free. Of course cramming all this into one character can be tough, and then what do you do with your high CL, but it’s certainly possible to get up above the norm. Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundust Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 Posting interest! Already working on my character... Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalamb Posted January 14 Clone Share Posted January 14 I have been working on a custom Spheres of Guile trade tradition, for the first time, and am struggling with matching up the vocation trade talents with the backstory / character concept. Some things that fit the background don't fit the skill set and vice versa. Has anyone done this before, and do you have any advice? Name xDiceName xDiceResult xDiceString xDiceRolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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