Game-related OOC

[Lycar]

Counter argument: There is no saving throw for Bull Rush. You absolutely can Bull Rush people off cliffs, no save, no nothing, just hit their CMD.

So, there ought to be no saving throw vs. being pushed by Golden Swipe either. None of the maneuvers imposing forced movement mention a saving throw.

But! This isn't about Edmund pushing the NPC into the vent, this is about the NPC avoiding the results of being pushed into the vent, now isn't it. So it would be more accurate to let the guy make a Reflex save to avoid falling. Like, grabbing the edge of the vent with a hand. Probably best emulated by him counting as prone until he can pull himself up again with a Move action (and drawing the usual AoO of course). PF2 has the Grab an Edge action for that.

Or what does the Module say a PC has to do to avoid falling down a vent?

[DangerBoy]

Falling down a vent would mostly occur if a trap were triggered and a trap usually requires a Reflex save.

It's true that Bull Rush doesn't get a saving throw but it also triggers an AoO and does no damage so - like Telekinesis - it isn't a perfect comparison.

I still feel like it should require some sort of save but in the spirit of not clogging up the game and also giving you the benefit of incomplete 3rd party rules, I'll rule that the target doesn't get a save.

[Omegang]

So why don’t Edmund and Duncan simultaneously attack Jalabar (or Duncan can go first and Edmund could finish her off with a Sneak Attack)

[parody]

I was gonna attack Jalabar (since that's the only viable target), but wanted to wait to see if that went down the vent... which means there are no viable targets for Duncan atm?

[Omegang]

Jalabar may have a Fly ability, which would negate any effort to get her to fall into the vent.

[thesloth]

The others are all flying. It's a safe bet.

[DangerBoy]

Ah, I missed the "knock them down a vent" part. Yes, you've seen Jalabar and the others flying, that's how they got into the cavern. You can reposition Jalabar but you can't knock him into the vent and make him fall.

 

[Lycar]

Well, then what would Jalabar even save for? The whole point from Edmund's point of view is to protect Kendrick by moving Jalabar out of reach of Kendrick, so he can't full attack him on his turn. Why exactly should that trigger a save again when Bull Rush doesn't? I was under the impression your hang-up was about shoving a foe into a hazard without a save, but since that is not happening, where is the problem?

Please also note that SE and NE are the only directions Edmund can shove Jalabar to get him out of Kendrick's face. Although if you prefer Edmund moves him NE-E, where he would still be floating over mostly solid ground, he can do that instead.

Edited May 8 by Lycar (see edit history)

[parody]

He said he missed the "knock them down a vent" part.

[Lycar]

Hence my confusion.

[parody]

I don't recall what the vents do - was it just damage?

[parody]

15 minutes ago, Lycar said:

Please also note that SE and NE are the only directions Edmund can shove Jalabar to get him out of Kendrick's face. Although if you prefer Edmund moves him NE-E, where he would still be floating over mostly solid ground, he can do that instead.

My suggestion is to move her closer to the other enemies, so we can target all of them with AoE (presumably).

[Lycar]

Sure, 10' is just the limit of Golden Swipe.

[parody]

I moved Duncan's token over Kendrick's (and the spiritual ally token, but that should be removed since its been dismissed).

[Omegang]

@parodyQuite the masterful piece of writing. If you ever develop a novel, I’d buy it!