How many (and which) crewmembers and facilities does a SF carrier require?

[Mirilene]

(Or is it 'how much crewmembers' in this context?) Hello! Also apologies if this is actually not the right forum for this question - I think it is but please correct me!

So, the following scenario - imagine a rag-tag crew of four mercenaries, all bringing their own, custom-built/-grown mecha (We're playing Battle Century, so the actual term would be Gears and, for the organic variant, Familiars), all of them having just a little bit of combat experience. Now the city-state they work for is unfortunately in a conflict with an enemy that has a lot of spread out bases, so they need these mercenaries being highly mobile - on a flight capable carrier that houses their four units and at least has some more space housing 2-4 'cheap patrol craft' and for potentially captured units.

The players likely will interact a lot with the crewmembers of this ship as they will spend plenty of time (sometimes weeks, even though I don't intent on playing out every single day) 'confined' to said ship. Unfortunately I have literally zero experience in regards to what kind of crew size such a small-size carrier could have, and even worse, what kind of facilities does it require?

So I've been thinking...

Bridge
- Naturally, the ship's captain
- Probably an XO?
- At least 2-4 Bridge Operators?

Engineering
- Chief Engineer and Maintenance Crew (and once more, how many of these even?)

Mess/Kitchen
- Kitchen personnel and chef to keep crew morale high

Infirmary
- Doctor and at least 1-2 nurses?

Hangar and NPC combat personnel
- Pilots for the patrol units
- Gunners for the defensive turrets? (Can also be unnecessary if that part is done by AI...)
 

Storage deck/rooms/bays for fuel, spare parts, ammunition, food and medical supplies (for humans and familiars)

 

But that's like all I can think of - perhaps this is also all nonsense and some of this isn't even required ... I have really no idea.
Anyway, thanks for reading!

- Miri
p.s.: Once more apologies if this isn't the right forum for this question.

[Suzuki Stumpy]

I'd start by looking at typical crew manifests for naval vessels. Maybe a corvette given the size of ship you're describing. A quick Google hints at around 40-50 core crew plus extra for mission specialists.

This might prove useful: https://www.quora.com/How-many-men-are-on-the-crew-of-a-US-corvette

[Rudra]

it depend on the mecha's size.

I'll use gurps rules and, for simplicity, i'll assume a 10-15m tall mecha(in gurps terms, size modifier +5 and a generic 30 tons)

you want an hangar able to carry 4 Sm+5 mechas, 4 patrol crafts(lets say sm +6 and 100 tons) and some extra space for captured units

for a carrier it wouldnt be strange to have 3 slots of hangar(thats gurps rules, ignore them if you arent familiar with the system)

we need a capacity of 4x30+4x100 plus extra space(lets say another 200) 920 tons(again, in gurps term, you can assign whatever number you like, just try to keep the proportions)

a sm+10 starship has an hangar capacity of 300tons, with 3 hangars we get to 900, which is close enough to our objective

a sm+10 starship has a mass of 10000 tons and is 100 yards long(again, change as you prefer, hull design can make it longer or shorter)

A ship of this size, meant to travel around the galaxy need:

An habitat for the crew(where they eat,sleep, basically the life support) this place need 1 worker to run and has space for 60 cabins(1-2 persons) or bunkrooms(4 people) or a mix

a second habitat dedicated to specialized rooms(infirmary, lab, small factory ecc) all of these require people, likely specialized workers

the 3 hangars require 1 worker each(this is not the mechanic, just the people to manage the hangar) i'd say you need a number of mechanics equal to the number of vehicles and an healthy number of technicians/assistants

a powerplant(or two?) 1 worker each

reaction engines, 1 worker, more if you need an quick/agile ship

stardrive(the star wars hyperdrive ) 1 worker

the control room(bridge) 10 workstations(pilots/sensors/captain ecc) plus 1 worker(this is probably the one who clean/do the maintenance)

each turret, or group of linked turrets, may have a gunner(unless it's automated) same for other weapons

the ship also need a space for cargo, you can add optional stuff as a factory(to build big components for the mecha/ships)

since it's a warship, i'd say it need security/soldiers and spare personnel, likely people cover multiple roles(the gunners may double as soldiers since they arent controlling the turret all the time)

add the mecha pilots and the crew of the patrol ships and i think you can do it with around 80-100 people(with gurps rules) and a skeleton crew of 14-20 people

You can easily cut down the number with automation, if your setting has the technology to make mechas, they can build big starships that need little crew

 

Edited January 16 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Roughtrade]

8 hours ago, Mirilene said:

perhaps this is also all nonsense and some of this isn't even required ...

I think this is the tack to take. Pick a vague number, 100-200-300, whatever. But if this is a military unit, it likely isn't static. Ship manning numbers are an ideal. At any given time you might have transfers, undermanning due to lack of qualified personnel, carrying extra personnel as transfers to another unit, civilian inspectors or training instructors.

Think back to Star Trek ToS. Kirk was constantly going on about having to worry about 400 crewmen, but you only saw one when they were the plot hook of the week. Do you need to detail how many clerks work in the disbursing office and tracking the pay stubs? Not unless you want to have fun with having someone's pay get messed up because they forgot to fill out a form.

By the same token, don't stress on deck plans. Keep it vague. Big details, sure. Ship has nine levels. Engineering is on deck seven. Berthing for officers on deck three, forward. Medical on deck four, midship. But detailing where every stateroom, bathroom, storage space and void isn't needed. And leaves room for growth or RP moments where the PCs have to hide or crawl through 'Jeffries tubes' when the ship gets taken over in a mutiny.

[Bobcloclimar]

I think figuring out which departments you need on your ship might be a good first step, then figuring out the staff size for each department as needed.

 

Also, consider how automated everything is. Can the mechs be repaired by a single manic pixie pushing buttons on a faraway console, or will a bunch of faceless techs need to go in with alluvial dampers and hydrospanners? Can a variety of foodstuffs be instantly prepared from onboard stores by speaking to a computer console, or does a full kitchen staff need to exist? Is there onboard security, or just automated defenses? Marines for boarding actions, or is the combat going to be entirely between mechs and capital-scale weapons? The level of automation will end up dictating how many people are needed for each department.

 

 

[Mirilene]

Thanks a lot for the replies! Lots to think about.

In regards to actual mecha size BC defaults to ~20 meters, however it explicitly states that much bigger or smaller (think ~80 meter Evangelion for big, ~3 meter Knightmare Frame for small) is also possible. Our players all have units around 20 meters, so that's not too big. There's a generic transport craft in the manual which is listed as ~120 meters length, but has no data to crew size etc ... the ship I envision for this is going to be a bit bigger, as it's meant to operate far away from any support infrastructure.

Automation is a good point, but BC isn't too sophisticated, it's essentially a post-post-apocalyptic setting, with humanity slowly starting to rebuild, so I assume that for most tasks, be it repairs or mundane things like preparing meals usually humans have to do the work ... well, I'll think about it for a while longer. Thanks again for the replies!

[cailano]

Two books that might be useful to you. I read them years ago while running a sci-fi campaign that took place aboard a war ship.

Tom Clancy's Submarine: https://www.amazon.com/Submarine-Nuclear-Warship-Military-Referenc-ebook/dp/B001QWFY6G

Tom Clancy's Carrier: https://www.amazon.com/Carrier-Clancys-Military-Referenc-Book-ebook/dp/B001TLZE5U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2W6FZK4C03FPK&keywords=clancy+carrier&qid=1705514315&s=digital-text&sprefix=clancy+carrier%2Cdigital-text%2C144&sr=1-1

[iantruesilver]

Realistically speaking, equipment and crew requirements should be tailored to the mission profile of the craft and/or fleet.

 

A typical modern USN air carrier is 2000 or so crew, plus 2000 in reserve to rotate out the active crew, plus another 2000 in training.

 

A typical RCN patrol frigate (not a carrier) is about 230 active crew. A minesweeper from the same fleet is about 48 active crew, plus capacity to add mission modules (in the form of sea cans) that may be able to house up to 16 more crew.

 

Bridge crews for a typical vessel will have an officer of the watch, a helmsman/steersman, a number of lookouts depending on the size of the vessel, an operator (for radar and instruments; this could also be the OpsO), an a communicator (for communications equipment).

 

And that's just for one watch in one department. Typical watch and station bill will have anywhere between 2-4 watches over a 24 hour period, that changes during times of stress and whatnot. (For example, a ship that's typically on a 3 section watch might change over to a 4 section watch while in theatre, as those on watch are expected to be under more stress).

 

Semi-separate of the bridge crew is the command crew (as command will take bridge watches). There's the CO, XO, OpsO, NavO, DeckO, EngO, LogO, and a number of other junior officers at their disposal.

 

Typically one cook per anywhere from 15-30 crew members will staff the galley.

 

Depending on the size of the vessel, crew compliment and mission profile, sometimes naval vessels will sail without a Physician's Assistant (residency doc). Most of the time there's only the PA, and no actual MO. One or more med-tech (equivalent of a paramedic), but again, for simpler/smaller mission profiles, those might not even be available, and the cooks will be the MO's representatives onboard, trained to a limited level of advanced first aid, without access to advanced medicine.

 

Ops department will have sensor operators, meterologists, and weapon systems technicians.

Deck department will have a compliment of boatswains.

Engineering department will have a variety of engineers and technicians familiar with various systems onboard.

Logistics will have cooks, supply technicians, and clerks.

 

Depending on the mission, some vessels will also embark specialized crew (sometimes for law enforcement or special forces, sometimes airdet and air crew, other times physical fitness trainers, a chaplain, etc.)

 

Crew numbers add up really damn quick all of a sudden. But depending on your fleet and how the crew are trained, they can be multi-capable. (ie. Every sailor onboard a RCN vessel has secondary duties, and are trained to perform those secondary duties. Vice: Every submariner onboard an RCN submarine is capable of operating every single system onboard. Vice: Rumour is, a vending machine guy on a USN air carrier fills the vending machines, and doesn't/can't/is not trained to do anything else. I have not personally confirmed said rumour.)

Edited January 17 by iantruesilver (see edit history)

[iantruesilver]

Department breakdown-wise, you're looking at Deck and Engineering being the largest departments. Boatswains and Engineers/Technicians will be your largest share of crew compliment, regardless of the size and mission profile of your vessel.

 

Equipment-wise, think redundancy. Every ship will have at least 4 independently operable engines/alternators that can propel the ship and generate power within it's "powerplant" (hint: the ONE engine core per ship you see on Star Trek is not safe to naval standards), plus the capability of making/filtering fresh water, processing waste (gray and black water), and at least storing, if not compacting/incinerating solid waste. Life support (ie. making/circulating/filtering/recycling breathable air).

 

Same thing, should primary steering control (typically located on the bridge) fail, there should be emergency steering controls available to the crew, typically in a space under the domain of the engineering department. There should also be a way for the ship to steer by engine, and by rudder (or in our space age equivalent, "thrusters"). Those systems need to be separate.

 

There needs to be systems in place to distribute power that's generated to various systems/components that need them. This is also separate from the power that propels the ship. This power distribution (in our case electricity) network needs to have redundancies. ie, let's say your ship is torpedoed, and you've lost a section of a deck, it likely also has hidden within its struture (under the deck plates and/or behind the bulkheads) part of the electrical grid that supplies power to some other part of the ship (unless it's the absolutely foremost or aftmost section of the deck), so power would be cut off to any section that this part of the grid would supply, until bypasses can be installed on the grid.

 

Fuel-wise, depends on your specific fuel. In our current world of diesel powered ship engines, there's typically no less than 2 storage tanks for "fuel oil", storage tanks for bilge (dirty oil/water mix), freshwater, grey water (non-toilet waste), and blackwater (toilet waste). Larger vessels have treatment plants for grey and black.

 

And because of the need to balance the vessel and keep it moving in the direction we want, there needs to be balasts that will balance the weight in different parts of the ship. An example of sci-fi's near-equivalent of balasts is Star Trek's "inertial dampeners".

 

There should be heads (toilets) and washplaces (shower stalls) for crew. Approximately 1 head and 1 washplace per 6-8 crew members. Same, there should be cabins/quarters for crew, with sufficient bunkspace (beds) and lockers for them to keep their personal belongings and operational gear. Depending on how overcapacity the vessel may be, some crew may have to "hot bunk" (ie. share a bed with another person that's on a different watch, so they are not sleeping together in the same bunk at the same time).

 

CO will have their own dedicated quarters, office, and heads. Various departments/department heads should also have office space. For example, MSE (marine systems engineering), CSE (combat systems engineering), Hull Tech, Clerks & Supply Techs, Chief Cook, all typically have their own offices. I may be missing some others that I can't currently recall.

 

On top of active equipment in use, there should also be capacity for additional operational equipment to be stowed, whether this is weapons, sensors, extra components, workshops/maintenance space/fabrication space, etc.

 

If the purpose of the vessel is that of a carrier, there obviously needs to be a hanger and a flight deck as well.

 

One galley can feed the whole ship, but it needs to be of sufficient size, along with refrigeration / dry storage spaces to boot. Depending on the design of the vessel, the mess/cafeteria spaces may be separated between ranks, or it may be combined.

 

Firefighting equipment, flood and damage control equipment. Sickbay and casualty clearing. Ship abandonment capabilities (life boats / escape pods / etc).

 

Small boats for various utility/mission capabilities, plus the capacity to store them and capability to launch/recover/operate them. If they use a different fuel for example (most RHIBs use gasoline for their engines and do not take diesel), there needs to be safe storage for that too.

 

Towing. Docking. Resupply (ie. Pumping systems embark fuel and freshwater, discharge grey and black water and bilge, elevators and/or cranes sometimes to bring various heavy equipment and/or supplies onboard/between decks).

 

Hope that gives some perspective.

Edited January 17 by iantruesilver (see edit history)

[Roughtrade]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:11 AM, iantruesilver said:

Hope that gives some perspective.

Sounds like you have some experience. Were you navy? 22 years as an electronics tech for me.

If there was a wanting for some details not covered.

None of this is so much important as it might make some fun details or situations for you to set the verisimilitude of things.

 

Mechs could be considered much like the Air Wing for our modern navy. A separate unit completely with it's own chain of command. The Captain of the Carrier (who would probably be an Admiral, don't get me started yet on all the fun phrasing the Navy uses. We will be here all day) Which is to say, they do not stay attached to the ship when it is in home port. The Air Wing for WestPacs typically flew off after we reached Pearl Harbor.

Marines are usually their own unit as well. Still subject to the Captain of the Ship, but a separate chain of command. And if there is a security alert, get out of their way because they take just a little too much joy in knocking sailors over. Watch the "save the whales" Star Trek, when Chekov is running through the ship. Those were real marines and on the hanger bay when everyone kisses the deck, that is what we do.

Damage Control. You get a little of this in Star Trek. Comm officer reporting status of the ship from various decks as they check in. Damage Control Central is run by Engineering but it is dangerous to put all of your repair force and supplies in one location. So, besides DCC, you have Repair Lockers. Repair Locker One is Main Deck. Repair Two is Forward. Repair Six is Ordinance. Repair 8 is Electronics (This was Me)

On the subject of Damage Control comes a very little known concept called "Positional Authority" which rarely comes into use, but to give the most common example. A damage control team using fire suppression equipment has a Hose Leader. He may be a deck seaman and you might be a chief petty officer. If you are on his hose team, you do what he says because he has the training and the knowledge and at that moment, the position of authority. I mean, it would be damn rare for a CPO to be on a hose team like that, but if the ship has taken enough casualties it is not an impossible situation.

Announcements. All day long the 1MC (Main Communications.) makes announcements. "Engineering is currently checking for grounds. Do not start or stop any equipments without the express approval of the Engineering Watch" This doesn't mean you can't turn on the coffee pot in your shop. But major things like the computer back up memory or the main operating consoles. You need permission.

On 1/17/2024 at 11:11 AM, iantruesilver said:

One galley can feed the whole ship, but it needs to be of sufficient size,

Officers do not eat with the Enlisted. For that matter, the CPOs always have their own mess, and even the Captain has to ask permission to enter. They keep a coffee cup for him. On a big enough ship there are more than one galley/mess deck. Nimitz class has two for certain.

On 1/17/2024 at 11:11 AM, iantruesilver said:

Approximately 1 head and 1 washplace per 6-8 crew members

On the Tarawa we had a berthing space -just for Electronics Department, that held bunks three high, three deep and nine rows. Engineering was on the port side, supply/special details (Clerk types mostly) were on starboard. We shared a common space for recreation with two tvs and not enough distance between them if they were on different channels. We also shared a large head split in half with about ten shower stalls and ten toilets.

Maybe small boats had it better, but on large ships it was pretty crowded. Marines had it worse.

On 1/17/2024 at 10:56 AM, iantruesilver said:

an operator (for radar and instruments; this could also be the OpsO), an a communicator (for communications equipment).

Again, my specialty. Operations had over a dozen consoles. Everyone tracked everything but consoles were dedicated to specific jobs. One will be tracking your planes, one will be handling landings and take offs, one will be specifically tracking bogies. I have only ever seen CJ Cherryh handle this correctly in her Downbelow Station series. These consoles are amazingly versatile. If one breaks down, the technician in the next seat and take over the same operational position without blinking. You can just hit the preset button that sets your console from TAC to ASAC and keep going.

So you have consoles monitoring flight operations, others tracking allied fleet positions, others tracking enemy engagements. And there are multiple operators for each. And this also doesn't include the fire control consoles that are firing missiles. I mean, you can Star Trek it with a bridge crew of five if you want, but if you want to have a big ship then it should have a big bridge.

And then there is the OSC. Hated that console. It is an oversized display, set like a table, so that several people can stand around it. Used for "Big Picture" moments, it is right in front of the Officer of the Deck's chair. And it is usually covered with papers, coffee cups and junk. Also, though I hope they have retired this version by now, when I was active duty there was a switch on the side of the OSC. If you bump it, it puts the OSC in test mode, and it no longer receives live updates. The number of times I was woken up because the OSC was broke, only to have to flip the switch back into position. It would embarrass you.

[iantruesilver]

14 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

Sounds like you have some experience. Were you navy?

Google.

14 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

22 years as an electronics tech for me.

Thank you for your service.