Character Creation Discussion

[Ayeba]

Fair enough. The chapter trappings only provide minor bonuses and easily be replicated by some custom items. The real meat lies in the chapter specific equipment. There are some serious gems there I wouldn't want to miss for my own concept.

[Trish_the_Nugg_Queen]

Yeah there's a lot of chapter-specific stuff from the official books that the homebrew legions miss out on, I think the extra talent is meant to compensate for a few different things

[Dybrar]

On 3/17/2024 at 12:46 PM, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

[Swapping two rolled characteristics] might be a house rule, but I'll allow it

At the risk of making a nuisance of myself: would this be in addition to or in place of the one-time re-roll the rules explicitly permit (core rulebook, p. 25)?

[Trish_the_Nugg_Queen]

Yes, in addition to it, so everyone can reroll one characteristic, and swap the results of any two charateristics once

[Trish_the_Nugg_Queen]

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Why would space marines from different chapters be gathered together into kill-teams rather than just create kill-teams consisting of only members from single chapters?

So the simplest answer to this is "Otherwise you'd all have to pick the same legion and that wouldn't be as fun", basically 😄 Part of the fun of the Deathwatch game is having characters from wildly different ideologies and tactics having to figure out how to work together and rely on each other. You could also think of this team as sort of a proto-Deathwatch; there have never been so many legions working together in the same theatre before in the Great Crusade, maybe this squad is formed as much for the morale boost of 'proving' they can all cooperate and succeed together, as it is about actually getting their spec-ops missions done.

 

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The Astartes are unaware of the existence of Xenos. Does that apply to us player characters too? If so, should we remove Forbidden Lore (Xenos)?

They're unaware of some xenos; the tyranids haven't arrived in the Milky Way yet, the tau are still beating each other over the head with sticks on a planet beneath the Imperium's notice, and the necrons mostly have yet to awaken, though there might still be some traces of their ruins here and there. The eldar are around, and sometimes collaborate with the Emperor, but they're very disunified. The craftworlders are a relatively new subculture of eldar, and the Drukhari/dark eldar have yet to centre themselves around Commoragh. Many of your characters will have fought orks in the past, but never anywhere near as large an army as Ullanor. The orks of 30k are probably the faction most similar to their 40k counterparts though, not a whole lot has changed for them. There are other aliens that exist in 30k but not 40k, mostly because the Imperium wiped them out in the Great Crusade.

In mechanical terms, no PCs will start with Forbidden Lore (Xenos), but everyone can optionally pick it up at character creation for 100xp. You'd know about eldar and orks, but because you're not Deathwatch recruits (because there is no Deathwatch yet) you're not specialised in fighting xenos.

 

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Even if the emperor is not worshipped, do (many) space marines still view him as a father figure? Or more of a military leader, or some other role?

Yes he's definitely viewed as more of a father figure, the space marines would be aware of geneseeds and a general idea of the nature of how they're genetically descended from the Emperor. They'd also be aware though, that he's their top commanding officer, and if they disobey his orders, it's at their own peril. The Word Bearers legion mostly view the Emperor with a religious awe, though by this point they've been reprimanded for it and many of them have turned to secretly worship Chaos instead out of resentment and a need for a guiding religious authority. Most other space marines know nothing about the existence of Chaos yet though, the Emperor has kept it a secret even from the Primarchs.

[Maester1216]

Pursuant to the top point, seconding does seem to be something done between the Legions. Phosis T’Kar of the Thousand Sons was seconded to the Luna Wolves during their extermination of a Xenos species. In that regard it’s not that dissimilar to the Officer Exchange Program from Star Trek.

Practically speaking, this means individuals from the other Legions serving alongside the Luna Wolves, White Scars and Ultramarines during Ullanor isn’t all that improbable.

[Ayeba]

20 minutes ago, Trish_the_Nugg_Queen said:

So the simplest answer to this is "Otherwise you'd all have to pick the same legion and that wouldn't be as fun", basically 😄 Part of the fun of the Deathwatch game is having characters from wildly different ideologies and tactics having to figure out how to work together and rely on each other. You could also think of this team as sort of a proto-Deathwatch; there have never been so many legions working together in the same theatre before in the Great Crusade, maybe this squad is formed as much for the morale boost of 'proving' they can all cooperate and succeed together, as it is about actually getting their spec-ops missions done.

I'm all on board for an out of character reasons when that is appropriate. It does answer a follow-up question too; would there be other teams like this? Nope. At least not in any significant number.

I assume that means we can create (or assume) a reason why our characters were specifically invited / ordered / encouraged to volunteer for the special squad.

One question that remains; who hands out orders to this new squad? Can, for example, any of the present primarchs give them orders, or are they just answering orders from the very top?

[Bobcloclimar]

I'm a bit behind on my 30K lore - is Astartes Scout armor a thing at this time, or would it be the Mk 6? The latter doesn't have the stealth/concealment bonuses.

Edited March 21 by Bobcloclimar (see edit history)

[Harding]

9 minutes ago, Bobcloclimar said:

I'm a bit behind on my 30K lore - is Astartes Scout armor a thing at this time, or would it be the Mk 6? The latter doesn't have the stealth/concealment bonuses.

Yes, they are lore friendly.

https://www.goonhammer.com/horus-heresy-units-of-the-astartes-troops/#Legion_Scout_Squad

 

[Ayeba]

I've been reading myself up on Warhammer Lore, and Holy F#%$, there is some serious messed up s#€£ there. No, scratch that. Almost everything is messed up.

Is it just me, or are there some serious Aryan race vibes going on in the Blood Angels?

The wiki explains how new Blood Angels are initiated now, using the blood drawn from the Sanguinary Priests, who in turn have consumed small amounts of Sanguinius' blood. But how was it performed before he died? Did he personally donate his blood for all the recruits? That doesn't match up with the lore that the Blood Angels; the blood angel gene-seed had a low rate of failure, leading the Blood Angels to create massive numbers of new recruits, most of which died in the challenges they faced.

I'm tempted to go with my alternate concept, a White Scars librarian/apothecary, but then I read up on ritual scarification and ... ugh. I guess every single bit of 40k lore is written to ensure that everyone and their mother is bad.

If I'm allowed to complain a bit more; a lot of the pictures, particularly of the emperor, have pauldrons so large that they completely rob the one using it from every inch of periphery vision.

Edited March 23 by Ayeba (see edit history)

[Maester1216]

Yup, they don't call it grimdark for nothing.

Something to bear in mind about that is Sanguinius himself. As a Primarch he has an obscenely high healing factor, so healing from blood loss or any injuries sustained from extracting is no real problem to him. I wouldn't know how much blood is used in those initiation rites, but you could definitely stretch something like that out.

Of course that ritual might not be a thing in 30k either, given Sanguinius is still alive. But don't quote me on that.

In a weird way it's kind of funny when you realize the Blood Angels are one of the nicer Legions; they care about baseline Humans, they do art and high culture, so on and so forth. Mind you when the alternative is a Legion who wears the flayed skin of their victims (Night Lords) or a Legion with berserker implants installed (World Eaters) the barrier's not that high.

As to the pauldrons... yeah you got me there for some of them. Heightened senses and reaction time to off-set that? But yeah, rule of cool (or more aptly rule of metal) tends to reign in 40k.

Edited March 22 by Maester1216 (see edit history)

[Ayeba]

@Trish_the_Nugg_Queen I see that I can start the game with a slightly excessive skill of 110 in Medicae. If you consider that a problem, please speak up.

• Intelligence 50 (lucky roll!)
• Talented (Medicae) from Protector of the Chapter deed: +10
• Exsanguinator, functions as Narthecium: +20 on Space Marine patients.
• Diagnostor Helmet (Red 15): +10 Medicae [Deathwatch p165]
• Astartes combat webbing / Medicae Pouch (Req 3): +20 Medicae [Rites of Battle p144]

The last one is just silly; 3 requisition for +20 Medicae feels like cheating.

So, my battle brothers; if you can survive the initial onslaught, you can be sure I'll be able to patch you up.

[Ayeba]

I'd like to ask for a piece of advice from someone more experienced than me. I rolled a 47 for Willpower, and while it's nice to be strong of will, that number might be a better fit elsewhere. I can't make up my mind whether it's better to put it in Weapon Skill or Agility. Whichever stat I pick gets boosted to 52, because Blood Angels have increases to both WS and Agility.

WS is obviously a lot better for offense, but it's also useful for melee defense. Very fitting for a Blood Angel, but the thing is... I don't need an amazing offensive potential. The previous value of 43 is perfectly acceptable to Zorael; he's an apothecary, so his primary role is not to go out there and kill everything that moves. Nor is it how I envisioned the character. 43 is a good enough skill before advancements.

Agility makes him Speedy Gonzales in power armor. Good initiative and movement, and it improves his defense against ranged somewhat (Dodge 42 -> 52). It does not increase his melee defense, as his parry is still better (43 + 10 from a balanced weapon). Better initiative too, I guess. Are there other uses I haven't thought of?

If you have other stats you suggest I switch it for instead, let me know. Here are the stats before switching anything around, but after the Blood Angel bonuses were added. It also includes a +5 to Fellowship (Sanguinary Priest), so I can get starting fellowship of 52 if I want to. But again, 44 is a perfectly fine value as well.

Weapon Skill: 43 (+4)
Ballistic Skill: 39 (+3)
Strength: 40 (+10)

Toughness: 46 (+8)
Agility: 42 (+4)
Intelligence: 50 (+5)

Perception: 44 (+4)
Willpower: 47 (+4)
Fellowship: 44 (+4)

Edited March 23 by Ayeba (see edit history)

[Harding]

Well, good Willpower is always useful, but if you're determined to switch it, well, consider agility, not only for the movement increase, but also the ability to dodge which help staying alive. It is better to dodge a melta cannon blast than trying to soak it with toughness + armor.

Or you could boost your ballistic skill. Getting in melee can be tricky during a combat (except if you invest your requisition in jump pack - if it is the case, have a blast boosting your agility. You may have a lot of fun. In this scenario, take the skill "Pilot - Personal"). Gunplay is really strong in Deathwatch and it feel powerful to mow down a mob of heretics with a burst of holy bolter fragmenting rounds (or incendiary ones).

There are no bad choice, but don't forget that Willpower help avoid insanity, psyker abilities and resist fear/cohesion. Don't underestimate it

Edited March 23 by Harding (see edit history)

[Ayeba]

Yeah, good point. Thanks for the advice; I'll keep it in WP and "avoid" the whole issue.