Character Creation Q&A

[Duqueen]

What about the incanter enhancement sphere specialization? 

"Physical Enhancement: At 3rd level, the incanter gains a +1 bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five incanter levels he possesses. He can change this bonus to a new ability score when he rests to regain spell points."

 

Would I gain three flexible feats? 🤪

[Steel Warrior]

42 minutes ago, Duqueen said:

What about the incanter enhancement sphere specialization? 

"Physical Enhancement: At 3rd level, the incanter gains a +1 bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five incanter levels he possesses. He can change this bonus to a new ability score when he rests to regain spell points."

 

Would I gain three flexible feats? 🤪

I think it's considered a temporary buff since it requires you to use enhancement sphere and it's changeable when you regain spell points.

 

[RedDingo]

Is there a discord for this game?

[Arklytte]

16 hours ago, Valdimarian said:

How do you feel about pregame crafted items? I’m looking at the Blacksmith for character reasons (burly dude hitting things) and they get Craft Wondrous and Craft Magic Arms and Armor as bonus feats. 
 

Edit: bonus question about the FCB, do we have to pick the same race or can we pick an FCB rom two different races? 
Edit2: finally got to the part of the Origin system with generic FCBs. Can we take a specific race’s FCB instead? 

Normally, I like it, but I'm going to say no for this game.  You're all getting a TON of Oath points, which is the reason that I'm deliberately limiting the gold.  Allowing crafting beforehand would throw off the numbers quite a lot more than I'd like.

 

That said, there will probably be some time for crafting during the game (and we'd use the Alt crafting rules to make it time reasonable).  If it turns out that one or more PC's are crafting oriented, I'll probably introduce ways to speed up crafting as well, to make it possible to craft items in a reasonable time frame.

 

FCB's: I guess I should have made that more clear.  When I said "Players choose TWO FCB's for their character.", I meant literally that.  Choose one FCB for one side (ie choose Human, or Elf, or Undine, or whatever) and choose another FCB for the other (which can be the same as the first side, or totally different).  You just cant use 6 levels of a Human FCB for one class, then 9 more levels of an Elf FCB for that same class.  🙂

Or, of course, you can use the generic FCB's of +1 HP and +1 Skill Point.  Or mix and match.  I try to give you as much freedom as possible, within certain guidelines.  🙂

14 hours ago, TheFred said:

I guess my confusion is that the Shifter traits aren't temporary. It feels that they ought to count then just as stat boosts from a class? But that also kinda seems odd that they'd not function the same as the talents they're meant to function as. This also applies to Permanent Transformation I suppose.

Tremendous also actually changes your size if you take it twice... but then that's two phenomenal potent talents, which is the same rate as what you were charging, so I don't think it matters so much. (Essentially, getting Tiny is cheaper than getting Large which... I guess makes sense, maybe; Large is better than Small but I'm not sure if it's better than Tiny, but hey)

Are you talking about stuff like Enhanced Physicality?  The one that gives you bonus CON?  That falls under the "If you have a class feature that increases one or more stats, take a bonus feat for each stat so increased" clause.  Enjoy your free feat.

 

AFAIK, the only Alteration talent that changes stats is Size Change (which changes STR/DEX).  If you have a Permanent Size Change, then yes, that would modify your STR/DEX, just like the size change from changing your size with Origin talents.  However, it will ONLY apply if you make that permanent size change after the game starts.  If you start the game Permanently Huge (or whatever), from whatever source, it's incorporated into your initial outlay of 140 stat points.

14 hours ago, TheFred said:

Instantaneously-created stuff like Wall of Stone isn't affected by Antimagic Fields, so I assume that a lot of the Creation Sphere isn't, too?

 

Undead usually aren't affected by Antimagic Fields (well, corporeal ones, though some of their abilities might be shut down). Are undead reanimated by the Death Sphere? Or would they only be immune if you take the Permanent Undead advanced talent, which turns it into an instantaneous effect? (I would expect that, actually, just checking)

 

On that note, are all instantaneous effects unaffected, since they're over by the time they're subjected to an AmF? So, for example, the Permanent Transformation Alteration Advanced talent which is (against anyone's better judgement) instantaneous too.

 

(Note necessarily trying to dodge the AmF eyes completely, but it seems like these may come up... 🙂)

 

If a talent requires maintenance, whether by concentration or spending SP, then it goes away in an AMF, then comes back when the AMF goes away.  This includes Creation based items, since they only last a set amount of time, whether that be from concentration or spending an SP.

 

If you take the Create Material advanced talent, which turns your Creation into an Instantaneous effect (for 2 extra SP), then those objects would stay in an AMF, because once created, they're 'real', not maintained by magic.

 

'Regular' Undead aren't dismissed by AMF's.  Undead created by the Death sphere are maintained by magic, just like other Sphere effects.  They would immediately deanimate (though not disappear, just fall down and become regular corpses again) while in an AMF, then reanimate (assuming there's still time left on their animation/you're still concentrating) when the AMF goes away.  Again, if you take the Permanent Undead advanced talent, you can spend 2 SP to make your animations Instantaneous, and thus, the undead would no longer deanimate in an AMF.

 

So...you know...Necromancers of the world, UNITE AND KILL BEHOLDERS!  :]

 

Otherwise, in general (though, of course, there may be occasional, specific exceptions), most Instantaneous effects that create something tangible or make a permanent change wont be affected by an AMF.

13 hours ago, Valdimarian said:

Edit: is there any way to get more Phenomenal Talents? I know you said we can trade a Fest for a Potent (and a Combat / Power Talent for a Utility?) but there seems to be a cap on Phenomenal. 

(minor nitpick, it’s Specialized Training that gives the bonus feat, Expansive Training gives one skill ranks equal to your level) 

Only by leveling up.  That was a deliberate choice on my part.

 

Also, you're right. I was looking at both, and Specialized Training and Expansive Training are right next to one another.  Apparently my ADD and/or dyslexia kicked in.  😄

12 hours ago, Duqueen said:

I might have missed it, but the limit on ability scores increases also include any that come from templates (dragon disciple)? All increaes would become feats? Does the size of the increase grant more/less feats?

 

Is all the spheres wiki available? No akashic classes, but what about pact magic? Is the material from city of 7 seraphs available? High aspirant seems even stronger giving 5 feats for the measly inherent bonuses it gives.

The stat increases from the class would grant you free feats, since they're post level 1 (and thus, you've already spent your 140 points).  If it's a boost from a size chance, those would work as normal.

 

Yama already answered the question about the wiki, so unless he missed something specific that you were interested in, go with that.  🙂

 

Also, yeah, while Co7S is fun, it's also batcrap crazy OP.  That's fine in a Co7S campaign, but it throws off the balance in a regular game.  I love the crazy high power stuff as much as the next guy (look at my character creation rules :D), but I try to not mix the two.  🙂

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

Fair, it's just that i'm wrestling with several character concepts so there isnt one specific, but two specifics😅

first, the most extreme, is "my" banshee, tried once in the past , it actually work better with the alignment removal but worse for the rest. It's a character that begin old and take Fiendish obedience to Mestama, the exalted boon turn you into a ghost which is a cr+2 template,  but the current race creation rules and attribute rules would play funny with it(undeads have no con score) i think a reasonable fix would be to use a base human(with no attribute boosts+ghost template with no attribute boosts) instead of creating a race(counting the ghost template as the sphere race, power wise they are close i think) and reduce the attribute points by 1/6 to account for the missing con.

 

second is a character who take the sanguine angel prestige class, at level 10 it change the character type to outsider(evil,extrapalar and lawful) and give some bonuses, i dont know how that would play with the absence of alignment(the prestige class itself require certain alignments to enter) and i dont know how the change would affect race creation

 

 

I would be ok with the changes you suggest for the first character option. 🙂  Sounds like an interesting concept.

 

afa the second, I can easily work with that as well.  Just kind of ignore the alignment requirements (you can just roleplay the Lawful and Evil parts), and if there are any specific abilities that center on your alignment, we can work out something equivalent for your character.

7 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

Ah that works, thanks!
I figured as a Large Ettin character, I want to be large, but also take into consideration, close quarter fighting. I already have all the athletic talents, even the fly one lol.. Don't ask.. 😅

@Niblooey's answer was going to be mine as well.  🙂  Spheres is pretty good at bringing obscure vanilla rules into play, so you can usually find something equivalent.  If there's simply nothing that within Spheres that will work, I'm usually down to work out something custom.

[Arklytte]

7 hours ago, Duqueen said:

What about the incanter enhancement sphere specialization? 

"Physical Enhancement: At 3rd level, the incanter gains a +1 bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five incanter levels he possesses. He can change this bonus to a new ability score when he rests to regain spell points."

 

Would I gain three flexible feats? 🤪

You would get ONE flexible feat, since you only affect one stat at a time.  Dont be greedy. 🙂 *waves finger*

 

Either that, or we could probably work something out where you get bonus 'free' uses of the Physical Enhancement talent, or maybe a CL boost to it, or something.  I'm happy to work out fun and interesting custom options.

2 hours ago, RedDingo said:

Is there a discord for this game?

Not yet.  Once the final team is chosen, I'll create a channel for the team for OOC and planning and whatnot.  But I find that trying to keep up with a Discord, in addition to keeping up with the normal chaos of character creation questions and whatnot, is incredibly stress inducing.

[Arklytte]

ANNOUNCEMENT

PLEASE READ

 

When referring to a specific rule/class/class feature/feat/etc, please LINK the relevant info, or QUOTE it (and if you quote it, please be sure to change the font to 'Automatic', since, by default, everything comes through as Black, which is impossible to read on the Dark Lime theme, which I use. Thanks!  :)).

 

It takes a fair amount of time to research these answers for folks...having to spend even more time Googling to even find the source is...grumpy making.  Please dont make your DM grumpy.  You wouldn't like him when he's grumpy.  😈

 

For serious though...the more time I have to waste Googling to find source material, the less time I have to actually answer your questions, and the more time is wasted on all our parts.  Please help me help you. 🙂

[Arklytte]

Also, also, I'm sure several of you have posted questions in your individual threads.  I'm going to be working my way through them over the next day or two (I literally haven't had the time to even start looking at them yet). If you are waiting on an answer in your thread, I ask that you remain patient, and I will get to them as soon as I can.  Thanks.  🙂

[Yamazaki]

@Arklytte - May I suggest you give us an example of how the Origin stuff works out?  I'm trying to make heads or tails out of the rules, both yours and the wiki's, and I'm slowly going cross-eyed.  And you know me - I usually can wrap my head around almost anything.

 

I chalk it up to poor organization of wiki, and crummy terminology choices.

[Steel Warrior]

Looks like I have some rebuilding to do. Some of the origin talent generation has been altered. Looks like in my favor too.

[TheFred]

8 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Are you talking about stuff like Enhanced Physicality?  The one that gives you bonus CON?  That falls under the "If you have a class feature that increases one or more stats, take a bonus feat for each stat so increased" clause.  Enjoy your free feat.

No, I meant the Permanent Size Change Bestial Trait. From what you've said it seems that it wouldn't change your stats. This just seems slightly odd because it functions as a talent which would change your stats, but less odd that Permanent Size Change changing your stats if and only if it's cast after game start, I guess.

8 hours ago, Arklytte said:

AFAIK, the only Alteration talent that changes stats is Size Change (which changes STR/DEX).  If you have a Permanent Size Change, then yes, that would modify your STR/DEX, just like the size change from changing your size with Origin talents.  However, it will ONLY apply if you make that permanent size change after the game starts.  If you start the game Permanently Huge (or whatever), from whatever source, it's incorporated into your initial outlay of 140 stat points.

Speaking of... if I wanted to use Permanent Transformation to make myself big, I should just wait until the game started then immediately do that, and enjoy the stat bonuses that I wouldn't normally have gotten? 🤨

 

8 hours ago, Arklytte said:

So...you know...Necromancers of the world, UNITE AND KILL BEHOLDERS!  :]

I mean... that's kind of what I was thinking. Send in the minions, stay outside of eye range! 🙂

 

Well, that, and "this makes Permanent Transformation even more OP than it already was", I guess, but hey.

[RedDingo]

2 hours ago, Yamazaki said:

@Arklytte - May I suggest you give us an example of how the Origin stuff works out?  I'm trying to make heads or tails out of the rules, both yours and the wiki's, and I'm slowly going cross-eyed.  And you know me - I usually can wrap my head around almost anything.

 

I chalk it up to poor organization of wiki, and crummy terminology choices.

It's basically Race Point Creator: Spheres Edition.

 

The available Spheres are:

Aptitude - governs cultural upbringing.

Essence - the metaphysical origin of your character. Were they constructed? Reincarnated? Aligned with a particular energy? This sphere defines that aspect.

Form - biology and morphology of your character. If you want Darkvision, this is how you get it.

 

Then there are the talent categories in each sphere:

Potent - as the name suggests, talents that have potent effect, like a Bonus feat, an extra skill point per level, Built-in Ghost Touch, or extra legs.

Auxiliary - Not as game changing as potent but grant smaller benefits to senses, resistances, and fcb like Multitalented, Darkvision, or Energy resistance

Utility - talents that mainly affect Skills and situational fluff. This is where you can pick Skill Familiarity, Endurance, or you can make your body shine (this is the only normal Essence Utility Talent BTW)

 

Finally there is the Phenomenal talent category, which is the Origins Equivalent of Legendary and Advanced Talents. They give you some jank and almost mythic umph. They are divided in their own subcategories of Potent, Auxiliary, and Utility.

Also there are Variations, which are the equivalent of Sphere Drawbacks but the benefit they offer is specific to the drawback rather than just granting bonus talent.

 

Normally, PCs start out with a Generation Tradition, which lets them select either Two Potent Talents or One Potent, Three Auxiliary, and a Utility, or any combination where in you may select an Auxiliary in place of Potent and a Utility in place of an Auxiliary.

 

GM is letting us start out with 3 Potent Talents and 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent at level 1 with an addition Potent Talent every 5 levels and an additional Phenomenal Potent Talent every 7 levels. So PCs get 6 Potent Talents and 3 Phenomenal Potent Talents at Character Creation. A Potent Talent may be exchanged for Three Auxiliary Talents and 1 Utility Talent. A Phenomenal Potent Talent may be exchanged for either 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary Talents, 2 Phenomenal Utility Talents, or 1 Phenomenal Utility Talents and 1 Phenomenal Auxiliary Talent. You can also take any number of Variations that don't contradict eachother.

 

They specified no limit on the number of Talents in each sphere you want to put these into. So if you were feeling lazy, you could spend all of your Potent Talents in Aptitude to get 6 extra feats via Specialized Training or you can diversify your Origin Portfolio and pick 3 Potent Talents, 6 Auxiliary Talents, and 3 Utility Talents.

 

Likewise, you can choose to just get 3 Phenomenal Potent Talents in any sphere or you can choose something like 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent, 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary Talents, and 2 Phenomenal Utility Talents or you can choose a combination of six Phenomenal Auxiliary/Utility Talents.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by RedDingo (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

I have refluffed my Ettin to be a Two-Headed Ogre instead. I used origins to grant him Hover (Su) and Sizechange (Su) which allows him to be small/medium. So the reasoning is he has the Ogre Magi bloodline. Need to think of a cooler name than Two-Headed Ogre 😛
 

 

Just to verify. I know we do not have the Ability score increases at 4th, 8th, 12th etc.

Do we still get the standard +2 to one ability score, or +2 to two ability scores and -2 to another as part of the baseline?

 

 

You may become Large or Tiny at the cost of Three Potent Talents, or Two Phenomenal Potent Talents. You gain all commensurate bonuses and penalties. This change is permanent.

This is just Reach, stealth, ac modifiers, but not strength, dex, con and natural armor modifiers correct?
Finally, since phenomenal potent 1, is similar to powerful build, without the reach, 2nd point sets you to true large etc, but no stat bonuses normally.
Is there any difference in the 3 potent talents? Like what is the first, second or final step?

Edited June 29, 2022 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Arklytte]

@Yamazaki, does @RedDingo's explanation help, or would you like me to do a sample build as well?  I'm happy to do so, if you need it.

 

@TheFred @Steel Warrior, as stated in the rules, you get 140 points for stats, PERIOD.  No boosts from race (except as noted for size changes), class, magic item, or anything else.  Only temporary bonuses from spells/abilities. 

 

I've tried to be accommodating, and walked that back a bit on other size changes, but I'm getting damn tired of people trying to game the system.

 

From now on, here's the rule, and there will be no more changes or exceptions: If you gain a permanent size change, from any source, then you may adjust your stats accordingly.  That is the ONLY exception to the stat rules.  All other class/feature based stat boosts grant you a bonus feat, as listed in the rules.

 

Temporary bonuses from spells/features will continue to work as normal.

 

Size Change mechanics will work exactly as outlined in the Size Change Alteration Talent.

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Arklytte (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

39 minutes ago, Arklytte said:

@Yamazaki, does @RedDingo's explanation help, or would you like me to do a sample build as well?  I'm happy to do so, if you need it.

 

@TheFred @Steel Warrior, as stated in the rules, you get 140 points for stats, PERIOD.  No boosts from race (except as noted for size changes), class, magic item, or anything else.  Only temporary bonuses from spells/abilities. 

 

I've tried to be accommodating, and walked that back a bit on other size changes, but I'm getting damn tired of people trying to game the system.

 

From now on, here's the rule, and there will be no more changes or exceptions: If you gain a permanent size change, from any source, then you may adjust your stats accordingly.  That is the ONLY exception to the stat rules.  All other class/feature based stat boosts grant you a bonus feat, as listed in the rules.

 

Temporary bonuses from spells/features will continue to work as normal.

 

Size Change mechanics will work exactly as outlined in the Size Change Alteration Talent.

 

One thing. No, I was absolutely not trying to game the system. I wanted to make sure I was doing things correctly.

Baseline gets a +2 to one ability score or +2 to two and -2 to one.

 

Baseline: All PC's will use the following Baseline information when creating their character's race.
This is all pretty basic fare, and hopefully wont cause any confusion.

• Size: You can be Medium or Small, by default. Small characters gain the appropriate bonuses/penalties, as listed.
• The size bonuses and penalties gained from Origin Talents will, unlike from all other sources, affect your stats.

 

I did not give myself anything over the 140 point buy and I did not add anything to my ability scores for going to large size.
I do not plan to take size bonuses to stats, I could care less, but I wanted clarification since you changed the rules.

 

Stats: Rather than use the Standard Pathfinder Point Buy, all characters have a pool of 140 points which can be divided up amongst your stats as you please, on a 1:1 basis. You will not gain any additional points from class, race (Origin), magic items, Oaths, etc.

 

I assumed you meant the below talent.

Extreme Specialization [potent]

You may gain a +2 bonus to an ability score of your choice. If you do, you take a -2 penalty to 2 other ability scores of your choice.
 

I wanted a clarification on the size increase and also since there's no steps included from taking Tremendous as x3 Standard Potents vs x2 Phenomenal Potents.

As a player, I was wondering how the 3x potents would work if I had chosen to take 2 of the 3 now and I bought the 3rd one on another level for example. So I asked what kind of steps it would have.

 

In the case above. 1 standard potent gives the powerful build feature, but cannot use larger weapons. 2 standard potent you can now wield larger weapons, and natural attacks are treated as one size larger, but only have a 5 foot reach. 3rd standard potent you gain large size, all bonuses and penalties for large size as well as 10 foot reach.

Anyways. Sorry, again, I really just wanted clarifications. I was able to rebuild my origin somewhat from the bottom up once I was able to free up 2 Potent Phenomenal talents. Took about 30 minutes because of getting used to the new site format and making sure I selected the correct prerequisites required for some of the phenomenal talents.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[TheFred]

16 minutes ago, Arklytte said:

@TheFred @Steel Warrior, as stated in the rules, you get 140 points for stats, PERIOD.  No boosts from race (except as noted for size changes), class, magic item, or anything else.  Only temporary bonuses from spells/abilities. 

 

I've tried to be accommodating, and walked that back a bit on other size changes, but I'm getting damn tired of people trying to game the system.

 

This makes it sound like you think people asking questions (such as myself) are trying to game the system. Attempting to game the system would be just assuming something works and going with it and then kicking up a fuss later if you tried to quash it because you weren't specific, not asking honest questions in an attempt to make sure that the system can't be "gamed". This is a pretty nonstandard system, and it appeared to be leading to a weird inconsistency, so I just wanted to check whether that wasn't some weird edge case you hadn't thought of - nothing more, nothing less.