Character Creation Q&A

[RedDingo]

Clarification Request: How do the Noqual Material rules interact with the Oath Point rules. Should it require the extra 5,000 gold to benefit from Enhanced Armaments and Enhanced Defenses? Fluffwise, that would make sense since it's flavored as being the result of the Monster Hunter's Lodge magic infusion.

Edited June 30, 2022 by RedDingo (see edit history)

[GralphidBlackstrip]

How does Swashbuckler Finesse couple with spheres and feat tax? We get weapon finesse free under the feat tax rule, so does it grant the second iteration of Finesse Fighting for qualifying weapons, or just convert to a bonus feat?

 

Can I designate 1,000 GP for buying a bunch of miscellaneous non-magical not particularly expensive supplies (tent, food, MW tools etc. etc.) and then not bother tallying the amount up? I have an extradimensional space to store it, so I'm not worried about the weight. I promise not to abuse this, I'm just lazy and don't want to do a bunch of math. Or at the very least, can I do this for now, and then if accepted do the actual math at that point?

Edited June 30, 2022 by GralphidBlackstrip (see edit history)

[TheFred]

13 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Fred, I set very specific & explicit conditions in the rules. I made a point of stating that there would be no exceptions. It was then pointed out to me that, because I was allowing permanent size changes, that would affect stats. Ergo, I decided to walk back slightly and give folks a bit of wiggle room.  But then you, and several others, kept coming at me with 'well, what about this exception, or that for instance, or the other scenario', despite my already generous rules.  And all asking for this bonus or that bonus, or another way to break the rules that I'd already set out.

 

Asking for clarification is one thing.  Constantly asking for exceptions to clearly stated rules, especially when it seems that the only goal is to squeeze the math that much harder, is another.

 

As it stands, I've made a final decision, and it wont be changing.  If you need additional clarification, I will be happy to provide it. I will NOT be making any more exceptions, however.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've only ever been asking for clarifications, not exceptions. I'm not trying to persuade you to rule one way or another. In fact, my last post asked (a) about the Bestial Trait which I asked about in my very first question on the matter, noting that you probably weren't going to treat it any differently, and (b) noted that you seemed to be allowing an exception already which seemed odd - if anything, I was asking not to have an exception! I appreciate tone doesn't come through over text but I don't feel there's any need to assume the worst intent. 🙁

[Rudra]

Back here for a few more question Ark.

 

With the backstory mostly done(i may do minor adjustments but it's all there) i'm focusing on the character building, this is going to take a long time as i aim to get really high knowledge skill(to use your epic skill check and MAKE random history facts 😁)

question 1: race building allow to pick a favored class bonus, am i correct to say it apply to my ghost too?(in particulal i'm looking at -Class-Specific Favored Class Bonus list- to pick a favored bonus of my class but of a different race) 

question 2, since i'll be using 5 attributes (140/6) *5 =116,6666 ecc. do i use 116 points or 117? a single point doesnt make any difference i just want to get the math right

Question 3 i had in mind to give Sonja the sorcerer casting tradition( or maybe the bard) but -somatic casting- on a ghost is a disadvantage that doesnt disadvantage much, do i use it regardless or make a custome one ?

Question 4 more of a general rule question , if a class feature allow me to take 10 on knowledge checks(think bard -Lore Master- class feature) can i take 10 on the epic knowledge skill checks? 

[Duqueen]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 ...

Question 3 i had in mind to give Sonja the sorcerer casting tradition( or maybe the bard) but -somatic casting- on a ghost is a disadvantage that doesnt disadvantage much, do i use it regardless or make a custome one ?

...

Beware the wrestling sphere.

[Llyarden]

How does the Finishing Touches epic skill option interact with the Alchemy and Trap spheres, which use Craft skills to create their stuff?  (Or someone with Charged Spells and Skilled Casting keyed to a Craft skill?)

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Duqueen said:

Beware the wrestling sphere.

Thats something i didnt think about!

But if the legendary wrestler chose to grapple the ghost then he is not grappling the barbarian, barbarians solve a lot of problems 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Rudra (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

8 hours ago, GralphidBlackstrip said:

How does Swashbuckler Finesse couple with spheres and feat tax? We get weapon finesse free under the feat tax rule, so does it grant the second iteration of Finesse Fighting for qualifying weapons, or just convert to a bonus feat?

 

Can I designate 1,000 GP for buying a bunch of miscellaneous non-magical not particularly expensive supplies (tent, food, MW tools etc. etc.) and then not bother tallying the amount up? I have an extradimensional space to store it, so I'm not worried about the weight. I promise not to abuse this, I'm just lazy and don't want to do a bunch of math. Or at the very least, can I do this for now, and then if accepted do the actual math at that point?

I would say, you would have the Equipment Talent: Finesse Fighting x2  (1. for the free finesse, 2 for the Swashbuckler finesse, still being able to use Charisma)
But I would of course wait for Ark to chime in.

If there was a way to obtain the Vigilante Social talent or just the Brilliant Planner feat.

Always Prepared (Ex): The vigilante can set aside resources to plan for future contingencies. The vigilante gains the Brilliant Planner feat except he can spend up to 100 gp per character level for his brilliant plan fund and only requires 1 minute to enact his brilliant plan. In addition, while in a settlement for at least 1 week, he can spend 24 hours and up to 500 gp per character level to create a stash somewhere within the settlement. Once per day, the vigilante can take 1 hour to retrieve a stash, retrieving any number of items that would have been available in a settlement he visited at the time of making the stash, regardless of the weight of the items. Once he retrieves a stash in this way, he subtracts the price of the items from the stash’s value and the stash is exhausted and lost, regardless if he used the full value of the stash. The vigilante can maintain any number of stashes, but a stash is lost if he does not spend 1 hour to maintain the stash at least once per month. A vigilante’s stash is well-hidden and only the vigilante knows the location of a stash he creates

Edited June 30, 2022 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Warlawk]

• Origin Talents
  The following Origin Talents can be chosen from any of the three Origin Spheres (Aptitude, Essence, or Form)
  • All PC's gain 3 Potent Origin Talents at 1st level, one additional Potent Talent at 5th level, and one additional Potent Talent every 5 Character Levels after that.
  • All PC's gain 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent at 1st Level, one additional Phenomenal Potent Talent at 7th level, and one additional Phenomenal Potent Talent every 7 Character Levels after that.
  • 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent can be traded for 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary talents OR 2 Phenomenal Utility talents, OR one of each type.
  • 1 Potent Talent can be traded for 2 Auxiliary talents AND 1 Utility talent.

Can the potent talents get the same treatment as Phenom Potent talents so that I could instead choose to trade one for 1 Aux and 2 Utility?

[hiace50]

As I was looking through archetypes for unchained monk and normal monk, I see that Master of Many Styles from normal monk doesn't require anything that isn't on the Unchained Monk ability list. Would I be able to take this with the unchained monk class?

[dalamb]

Is it OK to depart from mechanical minutiae to ask about anti-beholder strategies as input into choosing a character concept? All magic and supernatural abilities go away if you're in the quarter with the anti-magic ray (cones are a quarter-circle, aren't they)? So maybe my preferred non-mage characters have a chance to shine? An archer? A (non-magically) flying beatstick?

Perhaps a suicidal one? There is this barroom sphere I've never looked at before...

I'm thinking of maybe a Striker with Eagle's Path.

Does this make sense, or am I missing something?

[Steel Warrior]

5 minutes ago, dalamb said:

Is it OK to depart from mechanical minutiae to ask about anti-beholder strategies as input into choosing a character concept? All magic and supernatural abilities go away if you're in the quarter with the anti-magic ray (cones are a quarter-circle, aren't they)? So maybe my preferred non-mage characters have a chance to shine? An archer? A (non-magically) flying beatstick?

Perhaps a suicidal one? There is this barroom sphere I've never looked at before...

I'm thinking of maybe a Striker with Eagle's Path.

Does this make sense, or am I missing something?

That was my thought also behind building the character.
I was noticing a couple things Enhancement Sphere earlier today. I haven't given it deep thought though.

Antimagic Aegis

Prerequisites: Enhancement sphere (Magic Sink (enhance)), Protection sphere (Spell Ward (aegis, ward)), caster level 1st.

Whenever you use Magic Sink on a creature benefiting from your Spell Ward, or vice versa, you may spend an additional spell point. If you do so, any aegis or enhancement that that creature benefits from is not suppressed by any form of antimagic; the creature is otherwise affected normally by effects such as antimagic field or Spell Ward. This protection ends when either Magic Sink or Spell Ward end, whichever comes first.

My two-headed ogre is size large, with some scout, brute, lancer, berserker and finally sniper sphere, oversized weapon legendary equipment talent.
Plus have several adamantine spears.
 

Star Scraper (snipe)

Prerequisites: Sniper sphere, Perfect Shot, base attack bonus +10.

As a full-round action, you may perform a deadly shot with a -5 penalty that increases your weapon’s base range increment to 1 mile. You can attack a target without having line of sight or line of effect to them, ignoring any cover or concealment they possess, provided there is at least some form of straight open path between you and them, even if that path must go over a mountain or some other sort of large obstacle. However, you must have an accurate idea of the target’s location, such as by being signaled by a flying ally or informed of the target’s location and movements via a spell cast by an ally who currently has line of sight to the opponent. Creatures who are completely enclosed by protective surfaces, such as creatures inside a castle room with no windows, cannot be targeted by this effect.
 

Titan

Prerequisites: Brute sphere, Muscular Surge, Giant, base attack bonus +10.

Your carrying capacity multiplier from the Giant talent increases from x2 to x10.

You are always considered as being one size larger than you are for the purpose of who you may target with combat maneuvers and for talents that have effects dependent on size. If you have expended your martial focus with the Muscular Surge talent, you are considered two size categories larger for the duration.

If you possess Strong Lungs from the Athletics sphere, you may add your bonus from Muscular Surge to your Constitution score when determining how many rounds you may run or hold your breath.

If you possess the Oversized Weapons legendary talent from the Equipment sphere, you may wield weapons of any size without increasing the effort required (i.e., you do not increase the weapon’s category by 1 step from light to one-handed, one-handed to two-handed, etc.), though you still suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls for each size category the weapon is larger than you.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Niblooey]

1 hour ago, dalamb said:

Is it OK to depart from mechanical minutiae to ask about anti-beholder strategies as input into choosing a character concept? All magic and supernatural abilities go away if you're in the quarter with the anti-magic ray (cones are a quarter-circle, aren't they)? So maybe my preferred non-mage characters have a chance to shine? An archer? A (non-magically) flying beatstick?

Perhaps a suicidal one? There is this barroom sphere I've never looked at before...

I'm thinking of maybe a Striker with Eagle's Path.

Does this make sense, or am I missing something?

Yeah, that makes sense! Though ah, for your specific idea, Eagle's Path might not work, since it's an upgraded version of Sparrow's Path, which has this text at the end:

Sparrow’s Path (fly)
Prerequisites: Athletics sphere, Fly 3 ranks.

You gain a fly speed equal to half your base speed, with a maneuverability of clumsy. The fly speed only functions during your turn; if you are not on a surface that can support you at the end of your turn, you fall. If you deal damage to a hostile creature with a melee attack during your turn, you may choose not to fall at the end of that turn.

At 8 ranks in Fly, this fly speed becomes permanent. This is a supernatural effect.

Don't know if it's been clarified that the supernatural clause only applies to the 8th level variant of it, or if the entire effect's considered supernatural, though.

[Arklytte]

19 hours ago, hiace50 said:

Thank you!

 

I have one more question about clarifying Pathfinder rules this time. For Two Weapon Fighting: are we allowed to use unarmed strikes?

 

The online discord either says 'yes: unarmed strikes are able to work' or 'no: unarmed strikes are not weapons, and can't work'

 

And then I look at the brawler class which has brawler's flurry, which says:

"a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from..."

 

Im not sure if that's trying to give an exception to allow unarmed, or if that's saying this is what's usually allowed.

 

Also apologies for any mispelling, for some reason mobile doesn't do spell-checking with baldr

*SIGH*  This is...complicated.  As Llyarden said, Paizo's official answer was spectacularly unhelpful (and profoundly stupid).  Also, as pointed out, the Brawler rule is specific to the Brawler.

 

That said, to my way of thinking, it's meant to be more like 'you have a weapon in one hand, are barehanded in the other, and you can TWF with both'.  My understanding of unarmed strikes is that the whole body is considered a single weapon; hands, feet, head, elbows, knees, etc.  So you cant really TWF with unarmed, but that's why Flurry exists.  Also, Open Hand (which pretty much has to be done unarmed) is just chock full of ways to, basically, TWF barehanded.

19 hours ago, Duqueen said:

So techniques are off the table? Back to the drawing board.

Yep, sorry.  While I do love the concept of Techniques, I've not played around enough with them to know if they're reasonably balanced or not.  Until I do, I prefer to err on the side of sticking with things I'm more familiar with.

17 hours ago, Valdimarian said:

So I went and double checked again, whoever wrote the Oath for Imbued Spell messed up assuming competency on the part of the author of the Magic Item rules. 

 

By making them continuous use Apparatuses you HAVE to spend Complexity upping the duration to Hours / CL. That means a +4 to +6 Complexity depending on if the base sphere effect is minutes per CL or rounds per CL. 
 

I’ve ranted on this topic before on the DDS Discord, by requiring that much complexity increase before the 2k multiplier for a constant effect the pricing gets absurdly expensive. (See the Blurring Bandana: 72,000 GP for 30% Blur as opposed to just 24k for a Minor Cloak of Concealment) 

 

Here is the link to the start of my rant on the discord.

 

edit: and the rules for stacking additional effects only refer to GP, so you’re stuck with 4 Oath Points for one effect unless it’s a talent with stacking in add-ons like Telekinesis or Time where you can stack multiple abilities into the base sphere effect. 

Yeah...the Spheres magic item rules do leave something to be desired.  And while I appreciate your position, I'm still going to have to hold firm on the cash/oath point house rules.  I'll be happy to work with you on any custom Imbued Spells you want to put together, should you decide to go that route.

16 hours ago, Yamazaki said:

 

It works enough for now.  I may have questions later, but I think I'm wrapping my peabrain around it.

 

I think.  LOL

Cool.  If you (or anyone else) need more clarification, let me know. 🙂

[Arklytte]

16 hours ago, RedDingo said:

Clarification Request: How do the Noqual Material rules interact with the Oath Point rules. Should it require the extra 5,000 gold to benefit from Enhanced Armaments and Enhanced Defenses? Fluffwise, that would make sense since it's flavored as being the result of the Monster Hunter's Lodge magic infusion.

The bonus provided by Enhanced Armaments/Defenses will work on any item, magical or non-magical.  Applying the EA/D bonus does not make an item magical, it uses magic within you to enhance your ability to use that item.  So, no, you wouldn't need to spend 5K on a Noqual sword that you then applied your EA bonus.  Of course, the Noqual's intrinsic Enhancement bonus wouldn't apply either, since the EA bonus would override it

16 hours ago, GralphidBlackstrip said:

How does Swashbuckler Finesse couple with spheres and feat tax? We get weapon finesse free under the feat tax rule, so does it grant the second iteration of Finesse Fighting for qualifying weapons, or just convert to a bonus feat?

 

Can I designate 1,000 GP for buying a bunch of miscellaneous non-magical not particularly expensive supplies (tent, food, MW tools etc. etc.) and then not bother tallying the amount up? I have an extradimensional space to store it, so I'm not worried about the weight. I promise not to abuse this, I'm just lazy and don't want to do a bunch of math. Or at the very least, can I do this for now, and then if accepted do the actual math at that point?

The Feat Tax rules basically give you the base Finesse Fighting for free. Swashbuckler Finesse would give it to you a second time, which would normally give you a free Combat Feat, but since there are two levels to Finesse Fighting, you'd just get it at the upgraded level. 🙂

 

At 15th level, I'm not going to nitpick about purely mundane gear.  In fact, I'll make it official.  You can have, within reason (ie no carrying 5000 10' poles or other such silliness), any completely mundane gear you want, no charge.  I'm setting a cap of 25GP per item, and this includes Alchemical items, as well as other mechanically beneficial items.  If it's 25GP or less, and non-magical, you can have as many as you want.  You have to have a reasonable way of carrying it (Extradimensional Space, Shadow Stash, a mule, or even just a really big backpack), but if you want to pull a tent, sleeping bag, and some food out of HammerSpace so you can camp for the night, more power too you.  🙂  You dont even need to record it on your character sheet until/unless you use it.

 

I'm going to go update the rules with that right after I post this (and with all the other stuff I've been meaning to update).

 

FYI: I DESPISE shopping in RPG's. Oath of Poverty, both in 3.5E and Spheres, is literally my favorite thing EVER!  What's that you say? I dont have to shop AND I get cool magical bonuses?!?  SIGN ME UP!!  😄

12 hours ago, TheFred said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've only ever been asking for clarifications, not exceptions. I'm not trying to persuade you to rule one way or another. In fact, my last post asked (a) about the Bestial Trait which I asked about in my very first question on the matter, noting that you probably weren't going to treat it any differently, and (b) noted that you seemed to be allowing an exception already which seemed odd - if anything, I was asking not to have an exception! I appreciate tone doesn't come through over text but I don't feel there's any need to assume the worst intent. 🙁

Fred...I dont want to argue about this any longer. Regardless of intentions, that's how it came across.  I'll admit, I may, perhaps, have come across a bit strong in my reaction, but my point was still valid.

 

That said, it's done and over with AFAIC, so please, let's move on.

 

I'm happy to continue to provide clarifications. Just please try to couch them in terms of clarifications, rather than requests for changes, going forward, and I'll make an effort to not jump to conclusions.  Fair?

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

Back here for a few more question Ark.

 

With the backstory mostly done(i may do minor adjustments but it's all there) i'm focusing on the character building, this is going to take a long time as i aim to get really high knowledge skill(to use your epic skill check and MAKE random history facts 😁)

question 1: race building allow to pick a favored class bonus, am i correct to say it apply to my ghost too?(in particulal i'm looking at -Class-Specific Favored Class Bonus list- to pick a favored bonus of my class but of a different race) 

question 2, since i'll be using 5 attributes (140/6) *5 =116,6666 ecc. do i use 116 points or 117? a single point doesnt make any difference i just want to get the math right

Question 3 i had in mind to give Sonja the sorcerer casting tradition( or maybe the bard) but -somatic casting- on a ghost is a disadvantage that doesnt disadvantage much, do i use it regardless or make a custome one ?

Question 4 more of a general rule question , if a class feature allow me to take 10 on knowledge checks(think bard -Lore Master- class feature) can i take 10 on the epic knowledge skill checks? 

1) Yes, you can apply it to your ghost.

2) I've always been a fan of rounding up, so 117.  🙂

3) Custom traditions are fine. Just post what you want (and make up a little IC blurb about it...just a quick paragraph explaining what it's about) in your thread.  I have yet to not approve a Tradition in my games, unless it's something totally inappropriate for the game, so I imagine anything character appropriate you come up with should be fine.  🙂

4) The Epic skills are just there to provide you with target numbers.  How you get to them is up to you.  If you have the ability to Take 10 on a particular skill, then yes, you can Take 10, and if it gets you to the appropriate skill DC, then you do that thing.  🙂

11 hours ago, Llyarden said:

How does the Finishing Touches epic skill option interact with the Alchemy and Trap spheres, which use Craft skills to create their stuff?  (Or someone with Charged Spells and Skilled Casting keyed to a Craft skill?)

Finishing Touches is specifically keyed to regular Crafting, so one shot type items like from Alchemy or Trap wouldn't apply.  If you have the Create Stable Formulae feat, you could use Finishing Touches on that, since it counts the formulae as a regular crafted item, rather than a one shot Alchemy Sphere item.

5 hours ago, Warlawk said:

• Origin Talents
  The following Origin Talents can be chosen from any of the three Origin Spheres (Aptitude, Essence, or Form)
  • All PC's gain 3 Potent Origin Talents at 1st level, one additional Potent Talent at 5th level, and one additional Potent Talent every 5 Character Levels after that.
  • All PC's gain 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent at 1st Level, one additional Phenomenal Potent Talent at 7th level, and one additional Phenomenal Potent Talent every 7 Character Levels after that.
  • 1 Phenomenal Potent Talent can be traded for 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary talents OR 2 Phenomenal Utility talents, OR one of each type.
  • 1 Potent Talent can be traded for 2 Auxiliary talents AND 1 Utility talent.

Can the potent talents get the same treatment as Phenom Potent talents so that I could instead choose to trade one for 1 Aux and 2 Utility?

For clarification, Phenomenal Potent talents can be traded for 2 Aux OR 2 Utility powers, or 1 and 1.

I would allow you to trade regular Potent talents the same way (2 Aux OR 2 Utility, and none of the one you dont choose), but not 1 Aux AND 2 Utility. Utility talents tend to be better/stronger than Aux talents, that's why the trades work the way they do.

5 hours ago, hiace50 said:

As I was looking through archetypes for unchained monk and normal monk, I see that Master of Many Styles from normal monk doesn't require anything that isn't on the Unchained Monk ability list. Would I be able to take this with the unchained monk class?

MoMS is fine.  I never understood why they didn't include it (and several others) in the Unchained Monk's archetypes, since there are quite a few that work just fine w/UM.

4 hours ago, dalamb said:

Is it OK to depart from mechanical minutiae to ask about anti-beholder strategies as input into choosing a character concept? All magic and supernatural abilities go away if you're in the quarter with the anti-magic ray (cones are a quarter-circle, aren't they)? So maybe my preferred non-mage characters have a chance to shine? An archer? A (non-magically) flying beatstick?

Perhaps a suicidal one? There is this barroom sphere I've never looked at before...

I'm thinking of maybe a Striker with Eagle's Path.

Does this make sense, or am I missing something?

Yes, cones are 90°, so a quarter circle.

A non/minimally magical concept is fine.  Just be aware that, as mentioned to others, dont OVER specialize in fighting bog standard beholders.  I intend to throw far more than just the classics at you.  😈

FYI: Eagles Path is predicated on Sparrow's Path, which is Supernatural.  Thus, even though Eagles Path doesn't specify that it's Supernatural (which is yet another stupid writing decision on DDS' part), it's still Supernatural.

 

Heh...in the original iteration of this game, my character actually died in our first fight because he was flying.  He took several big hits, but survived, then got hit with an AMF just before the team took out a beholder, and splatted into the ground. 

 

"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless bitch!"

3 hours ago, Niblooey said:

Yeah, that makes sense! Though ah, for your specific idea, Eagle's Path might not work, since it's an upgraded version of Sparrow's Path, which has this text at the end:

Sparrow’s Path (fly)
Prerequisites: Athletics sphere, Fly 3 ranks.

You gain a fly speed equal to half your base speed, with a maneuverability of clumsy. The fly speed only functions during your turn; if you are not on a surface that can support you at the end of your turn, you fall. If you deal damage to a hostile creature with a melee attack during your turn, you may choose not to fall at the end of that turn.

At 8 ranks in Fly, this fly speed becomes permanent. This is a supernatural effect.

Don't know if it's been clarified that the supernatural clause only applies to the 8th level variant of it, or if the entire effect's considered supernatural, though.

Thanks for the copypasta. 🙂  Saved me the trouble.

 

AFAIC, unless an upgraded talent specifically states that it's NOT supernatural anymore (like, it becomes an EX, or becomes Instantaneous), if it's predicated on a talent that's Supernatural/Magical, then the upgrade is Supernatural/Magical as well.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Arklytte (see edit history)