Character Creation Q&A

[Rudra]

Oh, thank you, I had missed that option

[Arklytte]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:49 AM, Steel Warrior said:

I added this while you were responding.

If I spend Origin talents to start with the Warp Sphere (ala Specialized Training [potent] x2 for (Basic Magic training and Extra Magic Talent (warp)

Could I apply both the Mageknight Doomblade and Broadcast Blade Archetypes. The only thing that would stack is they would "normally" have to use the 1st level bonus talent for the Warp or the Destruction Sphere. There is an exception to that rule in the Archetypes.
 

Warp Warrior

The broadcast blade must choose the Warp sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Warp sphere.
Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.
and
Destructive Focus

The doomblade must choose the Destruction sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Destruction sphere.
Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.

My argument is that it alters, not replaces the talent gained at 1st level.

2nd) Also I didn't get an exact answer to the cost to go from Small to Diminutive.
 

If I go from base size Small to Diminutive is that 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents or 8 Potent talents or 5 Phenomenal Talents (Cost of 2 size changes combined).

I am assuming it's 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents because 8 and 5 seem really expensive if I am paying for the full cost of tiny separately and then diminutive.

I'd be ok with you taking both Archetypes. Obviously, you'll need to fill both Sphere requirements right out of the gate.

On 10/2/2023 at 10:59 AM, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

Please disregard! I found the answer by visiting the actual base rules your house rules were, well, based on. I'm a total derp sometimes, my apologies.

Though it did lead to another question: Is there no way to get a bird (such as a raven or owl) as a familiar? Your only limibs options are four legs or two legs/two hands, and all of the flight-granting talents seem to be Phenomenal.

No worries. I miss stuff all the time. I'm glad you were able to find part of an answer. 😃

To gain a Flying familiar, give them the Arm-Wings Variation. This allows them to take the Developed Wings talent as an Auxiliary talent. Technically, it's a Phenomenal Auxiliary talent, but in this case, I'll allow you to use one of their normal Aux talents instead. Flight is a powerful ability, but not so powerful that I'd require you to give them your one Phenomenal talent just to have wings. 😁

On 10/2/2023 at 11:05 AM, namo said:

"You may choose to make a companion Small-sized instead of Medium-sized."

But you do need an extra talent (or more) to make it Tiny or smaller, yes.

Correct. You need to spend one additional Potent talent to go down from Small to Tiny.

On 10/2/2023 at 12:18 PM, TheFred said:

Oh, so we can still trade one Potent talent for three Auxiliary talents and one Utility talent, as per standard Origins, in addition to your houseruled option to swap Potent talents for two Aux + one Utility?

I believe I spelled it out quite clearly. You can trade ONE Potent talent for TWO Aux & ONE Utility.

The reason I did it that way is because I gave everyone an additional Potent talent at 1st level. So you could, in theory, trade two Potent talents, gain FOUR Aux and TWO Utility talents, and still have ONE Potent talent remaining. Or you could keep TWO Potent talents, gain TWO Aux/ONE Utility, and still be ahead of vanilla.

Either way, it's a better deal than the standard rules.

On 10/2/2023 at 12:31 PM, TheFred said:

Also, I'm not quite clear, do the stat changes for sizes apply for going to Small, as well? Standard Origins it looks like you can choose to be Small and your stats don't change?

To keep things consistent, yes, you would gain the ability modifications from going from Medium to Small.

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

Hello, i've stumbled on another(minor) issue and i'd like a ruling on it:

For background reasons I'll take the Oath of loyalty(to nazana's deity) and integral oath feat(for said loyalty oath)

It's a central element of the character so i'll take it in any case, however in the house rules it say "you may trade 1 feat for 2 oath points"

Now, integral oath is a feat that impose extra restrictions and grant 1 oath point, could it get the same treatment as the house rule and grant 2 oath points instead of 1?

 

as alternative, can i take integral oath as a drawback, without the bonus oath point? basically taking only the restrictions

 

8 hours ago, bcool999 said:

@Rudra Check out the Integral Oath Boon in the spheres wiki. It gives you the effect of the Integral Oath feat while using the bonus Oath Point to pay for itself.

@Rudra What bcool said. The Integral Oath Boon basically allows you to take the Integral Oath feat at a 'discount'. So take the feat, and the boon, and you're golden.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Arklytte (see edit history)

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

2 hours ago, Arklytte said:

No worries. I miss stuff all the time. I'm glad you were able to find part of an answer. 😃

To gain a Flying familiar, give them the Arm-Wings Variation. This allows them to take the Developed Wings talent as an Auxiliary talent. Technically, it's a Phenomenal Auxiliary talent, but in this case, I'll allow you to use one of their normal Aux talents instead. Flight is a powerful ability, but not so powerful that I'd require you to give them your one Phenomenal talent just to have wings. 😁

Cool, thank you for the clarification and house rules update.

 

2 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Correct. You need to spend one additional Potent talent to go down from Small to Tiny.

Is this a change you made? In the aforementioned rules that I had originally missed, it says they can start as Tiny, Small, or Medium for animal companions or Diminutive, Tiny, or Small for familiars under "Size."

Edited October 5, 2023 by Boogie Woogie Wookiee (see edit history)

[Arklytte]

6 minutes ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

Is this a change you made? In the aforementioned rules that I had originally missed, it says they can start as Tiny, Small, or Medium for animal companions or Diminutive, Tiny, or Small for familiars under "Size."

Whoops! I thought you were talking about your CHARACTER, not your COMPANION. My bad!

If you want to make Companions smaller than Tiny, then yes, you can do it with either a Potent talent, or the Improved Familiar Feat. This works in reverse, as noted in the house rules, if you want to go bigger than Medium.

[TheFred]

12 hours ago, Arklytte said:

I believe I spelled it out quite clearly. You can trade ONE Potent talent for TWO Aux & ONE Utility.

The reason I did it that way is because I gave everyone an additional Potent talent at 1st level. So you could, in theory, trade two Potent talents, gain FOUR Aux and TWO Utility talents, and still have ONE Potent talent remaining. Or you could keep TWO Potent talents, gain TWO Aux/ONE Utility, and still be ahead of vanilla.

Either way, it's a better deal than the standard rules.

You did spell it out very clearly, in my opinion, but then namo asked:  

On 10/1/2023 at 8:23 AM, namo said:

So, to make sure I understand:

Origins says what we start with

Title

two potent talents

or a single potent talent plus three auxiliary talents and a utility talent.

In either case, auxiliary talents may be selected in place of potent talents and utility talents may be selected in place of auxiliary talents.

So with the bonus talents granted by you, we have:

3 Potent talents + 1 Phenomenal talent

OR

2 Potent talents + 3 Auxiliary + 1 Utility + 1 Phenomenal talent

and from either starting set we can use your "exchange rates" (which are different from the one proposed for that one starting potent talent). Correct?

And you said that is correct.

In particular, I'm talking about the option to begin with two potent OR one potent, three aux, one utility. Do your rules supersede that? I had assumed they did, but see above.

Obviously, for any subsequent auxiliary talents, one potent for two aux + one utility is a far better deal than the standard which allows only a 1:1 trade.

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

I'm in the process of learning the Spheres of Power rules, especially the Might subset, and I'm a little confused about how they work.  I was hoping one of you might be able to confirm my analysis regarding attack actions.

If a talent states that it's triggered by an attack action or a specific type of attack action, all such talents apply to the same attack, yes?  The only major exception is if a special attack action is involved. In which case only talents that specifically state they work with that particular special action can be applied.

So for example, you could combine something like Duel Wielding (Dual Attack) with Duelist (Blooded Strike) because they're both reliant on attack actions, but you couldn't combine Blooded Strike with Sniper (Deadly Shot) since the latter is a special attack action. But Sniper talents with the (snipe) subtype would work with Deadly Shot, but only Deadly Shot and only up to the limit specified in the subtype.

If that's right, is there any limit to how many spheres and/or talents can be applied at once?

Edited October 5, 2023 by Boogie Woogie Wookiee (see edit history)

[Inash]

4 minutes ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

If that's right, is there any limit to how many talents can be applied at once?

My limited understanding as a spheres noob, is no. If I'm wrong on that, then I would've expected someone to yell at me in the high level spheres included pvp game I tried running not too long ago, so I think I'm likely right.

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

Cool, that's what I was thinking myself.

Regarding magic spheres and talents, basically the opposite is true unless you have something like a Dual Sphere feat? You can use as many talents from the same sphere that apply to a base ability of that sphere unless a specific limiter is included, such as with Destruction (Destructive Blast) only allowing one (blast shape) and one (blast type) under normal circumstances. As opposed to, for example, using Divination (Divine) with all of your available Alternate Divinations plus, say, the Fast Divinations, Lingering Divination, and Divine Spellcaster talents. But trying to weave in a Mind effect at the same time would be no bueno regardless of what type of action they'd both normally use.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Boogie Woogie Wookiee (see edit history)

[EDTA]

You can stack as many "on attack action" effects as you've got to a single attack action. A special attack action is still an attack action so you can stack those effects with a special attack action as well. You can't stack two special attack actions together though.

[Inash]

I think your understanding of magic spheres and talents is correct. Except that many of those may also cost spell points so you can't stack more than you can afford the spell points for as well.

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

Gotcha, thanks guys. Especially for the clarification on special attack actions; it didn't occur to me that they only limit themselves, not other attack actions. That certainly makes them more playable than I was assuming. 🤣

[bcool999]

Alright I am getting close to review status but I need clarification on one thing.

Quote

FCB: Players choose TWO FCB's for their character. They will use one FCB on each 'side' of their Gestalt, and each will advance simultaneously.

Does the above mean what I interpret and we get a Favored Class bonus for each side of the gestalt if we advance in both our favored classes simultaneously?

 

For instance character has Favored Class: FC1 and Favored Class: FC2 and takes 5 levels of both FC1 and FC2 (FC1(5) // FC2(5)). That character would get their choice of +10hp +10 Skill Points or +5 hp and +5 Skill Points, or 5 pips in each favored classes respective unique bonuses?

And if a character took Fast Learner or equivalent at 1st level they could have +10 HP and +10 Skill Points?

[BBK]

Question on the Collector archetype for the Armorist class. Would the archetype's 'Prizes' still count as Summoned Equipment, Bound Equipment, or both when qualifying for or using Arsenal Tricks that normally require or use such? Mostly asking for Additional Binding (which usually requires Bound Equipment), so as to have more than a single item bonded as a 'Prize'.

Also, the 1 minute per class level time limit where their 'Prizes' return to storage from anywhere on the same Plane...does that include if you're still wearing or wielding said 'prize'? Because having your armor and/or weapon poof back to storage on its on while you are actually using it seems... dumb. Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it's just a 'You have to be mindful of the time limits' thing, but you're already giving up some things for this power and that seems like a heck of a flaw in the mechanics.

 

 

[relekorlagunis]

1 hour ago, BBK said:

Question on the Collector archetype for the Armorist class. Would the archetype's 'Prizes' still count as Summoned Equipment, Bound Equipment, or both when qualifying for or using Arsenal Tricks that normally require or use such? Mostly asking for Additional Binding (which usually requires Bound Equipment), so as to have more than a single item bonded as a 'Prize'.

Also, the 1 minute per class level time limit where their 'Prizes' return to storage from anywhere on the same Plane...does that include if you're still wearing or wielding said 'prize'? Because having your armor and/or weapon poof back to storage on its on while you are actually using it seems... dumb. Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it's just a 'You have to be mindful of the time limits' thing, but you're already giving up some things for this power and that seems like a heck of a flaw in the mechanics.

 

 

The Prize ability reads, in part:

Quote

Once set, a prize’s enhancement bonuses and special abilities may be changed by bonding with the item for 8 hours. Prizes are treated as summoned equipment for all other purposes and limitations, but do not cost a spell point to withdraw. Prizes wielded by anyone other than the collector lose any enhancement bonuses and special abilities granted by this ability.

 

[Arklytte]

9 hours ago, TheFred said:

You did spell it out very clearly, in my opinion, but then namo asked:  

And you said that is correct.

In particular, I'm talking about the option to begin with two potent OR one potent, three aux, one utility. Do your rules supersede that? I had assumed they did, but see above.

Obviously, for any subsequent auxiliary talents, one potent for two aux + one utility is a far better deal than the standard which allows only a 1:1 trade.

Yeah yeah, catch me out with my own words. 🤪

What I have in the House Rules thread is correct. You start with THREE Potent (And ONE Phenomenal Potent) at level one, plus ONE MORE Potent at Level 5. You can trade ONE Potent for TWO Aux & ONE Utility. And just for full clarity, you can trade any number of Potents for

2 Aux/1 Util, so you could, in theory, trade away all four Potents, though I doubt you'd want to.

Again, sorry for the mistake. I'll try to be more careful going forward and not miss those little details.

9 hours ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

I'm in the process of learning the Spheres of Power rules, especially the Might subset, and I'm a little confused about how they work.  I was hoping one of you might be able to confirm my analysis regarding attack actions.

If a talent states that it's triggered by an attack action or a specific type of attack action, all such talents apply to the same attack, yes?  The only major exception is if a special attack action is involved. In which case only talents that specifically state they work with that particular special action can be applied.

So for example, you could combine something like Duel Wielding (Dual Attack) with Duelist (Blooded Strike) because they're both reliant on attack actions, but you couldn't combine Blooded Strike with Sniper (Deadly Shot) since the latter is a special attack action. But Sniper talents with the (snipe) subtype would work with Deadly Shot, but only Deadly Shot and only up to the limit specified in the subtype.

If that's right, is there any limit to how many spheres and/or talents can be applied at once?

The core of SoM is the Attack and Special Attack Action, and it can definitely be confusing at first glance. But your summation is exactly correct. You can apply (basically) unlimited modifiers to an Attack Action, but you can only apply only one Special Attack Action. You cant stack two Special Attack Actions onto the same attack.

Once the game starts, whenever the first combat is triggered, we'll take it slow for any newbies, so they can get used to things. Plus, I have a rule that, after the first combat, I allow players to make changes to their character's mechanics, if they so desire, since it's often the case that you'll see some collection of talents that looks awesome 'on paper', but, once you're in the thick of combat, it kind of falls apart.

That still happens to me as well. Spheres is an awesome system, but it has it's share of issues, just like any other 3PP product (or any RPG, if we're being honest 😁)

9 hours ago, Inash said:

My limited understanding as a spheres noob, is no. If I'm wrong on that, then I would've expected someone to yell at me in the high level spheres included pvp game I tried running not too long ago, so I think I'm likely right.

You are correct. 😀

 

9 hours ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

Cool, that's what I was thinking myself.

Regarding magic spheres and talents, basically the opposite is true unless you have something like a Dual Sphere feat? You can use as many talents from the same sphere that apply to a base ability of that sphere unless a specific limiter is included, such as with Destruction (Destructive Blast) only allowing one (blast shape) and one (blast type) under normal circumstances. As opposed to, for example, using Divination (Divine) with all of your available Alternate Divinations plus, say, the Fast Divinations, Lingering Divination, and Divine Spellcaster talents. But trying to weave in a Mind effect at the same time would be no bueno regardless of what type of action they'd both normally use.

Also correct.

 

3 hours ago, bcool999 said:

Alright I am getting close to review status but I need clarification on one thing.

Does the above mean what I interpret and we get a Favored Class bonus for each side of the gestalt if we advance in both our favored classes simultaneously?

 

For instance character has Favored Class: FC1 and Favored Class: FC2 and takes 5 levels of both FC1 and FC2 (FC1(5) // FC2(5)). That character would get their choice of +10hp +10 Skill Points or +5 hp and +5 Skill Points, or 5 pips in each favored classes respective unique bonuses?

And if a character took Fast Learner or equivalent at 1st level they could have +10 HP and +10 Skill Points?

Correct, and correct. Your examples are exactly right.

 

2 hours ago, BBK said:

Question on the Collector archetype for the Armorist class. Would the archetype's 'Prizes' still count as Summoned Equipment, Bound Equipment, or both when qualifying for or using Arsenal Tricks that normally require or use such? Mostly asking for Additional Binding (which usually requires Bound Equipment), so as to have more than a single item bonded as a 'Prize'.

Also, the 1 minute per class level time limit where their 'Prizes' return to storage from anywhere on the same Plane...does that include if you're still wearing or wielding said 'prize'? Because having your armor and/or weapon poof back to storage on its on while you are actually using it seems... dumb. Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it's just a 'You have to be mindful of the time limits' thing, but you're already giving up some things for this power and that seems like a heck of a flaw in the mechanics.

 

 

As Relek pointed out, your Prizes would count as Summoned/Bound weapons for purposes of Arsenal Tricks, so yes, you could do the Additional Binding to have an additional Prizes slot available.

 

AFA the 1 minute/level thing, yeah, that's oddly worded. For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to say that, unless you're in a high stress situation, or you're incapacitated in some fashion, you can just keep 'resummoning' the items as a sort of unconscious reflex. I agree that it's kind of dumb for your armour, for example, to suddenly disappear off your person just because an arbitrary time limit was reached, if all you're doing is just walking down the road or eating dinner. And since it's only a Swift/Move action to summon them, AND it doesn't cost a Spell Point, I'm not going to fuss over it.

Note that combat WILL count as a high stress situation, so if, somehow, you're involved in a combat that lasts more than 5 minutes/50 rounds (Assuming a 5th level Armorist), then on Round 51, I'd require you to sacrifice a Swift/Move action to keep the item out. That could, in theory, become a problem if you've got more than three items summoned simultaneously. But since I cant imagine a combat taking that long, it's highly doubtful it'll become an issue.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Arklytte (see edit history)