Character Creation Q&A

[whitelancer]

How does "Hero's Fortune" feat work with your house rules? Does that mean with the feat we can get to a max of 12? Do we still need it for Luck of Heroes feat?

[TheFred]

5 hours ago, Arklytte said:

For your race, since it's mostly window dressing, you're welcome to choose any Pathfinder race. Since this game is going to be less exotic than most of mine, I'd rather you stick to the established races, rather than monstrous or otherworldly ones. That said, if you have a really strong character idea, and it's Out There™, then I'm certainly open to talking about it. :)

If you want to tweak fluff...resurrect the old Valley Elves (the serious ones, or the Elves of Orange County ones :D :D :D), as one example, that's more than fine.

OK, so classic fantasy... I guess I was thinking, do all the same races fill all the same roles in this world? Could I be a "Drow" but from some totally-not-evil settlement or group (at which point, you're basically just saying you have a different colour skin, given the lack of mechanical differences)? Or in PF some races, like the Lashunta and the Kasatha, apparently come from a different planet; perhaps it would be less "out there" to forget that bit?

Or, I was wondering, could one put together something different, like... a bee-person, or a dragonblooded dwarf subrace, or a common D&D race that didn't get ported to PF, or whatever? Pathfinder already has, like, catfolk, etc, so why not bee folk? No particular aims here, just trying to grok the setting.

Also I'm just looking at what options there are in Origins... looks like you can get four arms if you splash a feat, or wings, but I'm not sure how "out there" that would be.

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

If a magic item duplicates a Vancian spell that has a magic talent equivalence, do we use the rules for the spell or the talent? For example, the Deathwatch spell from a pair of Deathwatch Eyes vs. the Soul Seer talent.

[droobles]

14 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Hey all...sorry for not posting sooner. Been a helluva day. :p

 

To all those waiting on custom tradition approval, I'll get to those shortly. For now, assume they're ok, so long as they're not something outlandish, and if I have any questions/concerns, I'll mention them in your individual threads.

 

Kella, thanks for the assist. :)

BWW, the only things that can modify your permanent stats is if you take the Enhanced Attributes Oath Boon. Otherwise, you just get your points as outlined in the creation rules. You can also boost them with temp abilities like from the Enhancement sphere, or class features, but, again, only if they're temporary.

Yes, you can use your additional cash to buy flat cost bonuses. I should have included that in the rules. Adding it to my notes to update them with. :)

Yes, you can take that feat. Otherwise, there's no other way to add additional Origin talents. In some of my games, I give more based on level (it's an optional rule in the Origins rules), but I chose not to in this game. Wanted to keep it relatively simpler. :D

For your race, since it's mostly window dressing, you're welcome to choose any Pathfinder race. Since this game is going to be less exotic than most of mine, I'd rather you stick to the established races, rather than monstrous or otherworldly ones. That said, if you have a really strong character idea, and it's Out There™, then I'm certainly open to talking about it. :)

If you want to tweak fluff...resurrect the old Valley Elves (the serious ones, or the Elves of Orange County ones :D :D :D), as one example, that's more than fine.

But in the character creation rules it says we get extra origin talents. In fact my build is using the extra potent and phenomenal.

 

Should we use only the regular origin rules?

[Steel Warrior]

I the past I have applied with characters with these similar rules. Should I come up with something completely different due to the fact they were not chosen before. That or my app just wasn't impressive enough lol.

Welp, tossing my hat in again!

Other than the 30 points 1:1 ratio.
In the rules if you take size changes they do affect your ability scores.
Following this Monster Advancement Chart?
Finally, Do you personally have any specific preferences like, You don't like Tiny, Diminutive, or Huge, Gargantuan characters etc.
 

Chart

Table: Size Changes

Old Size*	New Size	Str	Dex	Con	Natural Armor
Fine	Diminutive	Same	–2	Same	Same
Diminutive	Tiny	+2	–2	Same	Same
Tiny	Small	+4	–2	Same	Same
Small	Medium	+4	–2	+2	Same
Medium	Large	+8	–2	+4	+2
Large	Huge	+8	–2	+4	+3
Huge	Gargantuan	+8	Same	+4	+4
Gargantuan	Colossal	+8	Same	+4	+5
* Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size.

If I went one of the above routes, I was thinking of having.

Sizeshifter [auxiliary] (Su)

You gain the change shape ability and the shapeshifter subtype. Instead of changing appearance, you can use your change shape ability to change your size category to Small or Medium (chosen when you gain this talent). Your ability scores do not change, only your size (and thus your weapon damage); normal size penalties and bonuses to AC and CMD and on attack and skill rolls apply. Changing size or returning to your true size is a full-round action. Your size in this form overrides and ignores any other effects which might change your size unless the caster succeeds at a magic skill check against 11 + your Hit Dice.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Arklytte]

20 hours ago, whitelancer said:

How does "Hero's Fortune" feat work with your house rules? Does that mean with the feat we can get to a max of 12? Do we still need it for Luck of Heroes feat?

Since Hero's Fortune basically makes the Hero Point cap about 1.5 times higher, we'll go with that, and make the cap 15 with the feat. And yes, you'd still need it for Luck of Heroes, since LoH has nothing to do with the amount of HP you have.

16 hours ago, TheFred said:

OK, so classic fantasy... I guess I was thinking, do all the same races fill all the same roles in this world? Could I be a "Drow" but from some totally-not-evil settlement or group (at which point, you're basically just saying you have a different colour skin, given the lack of mechanical differences)? Or in PF some races, like the Lashunta and the Kasatha, apparently come from a different planet; perhaps it would be less "out there" to forget that bit?

Or, I was wondering, could one put together something different, like... a bee-person, or a dragonblooded dwarf subrace, or a common D&D race that didn't get ported to PF, or whatever? Pathfinder already has, like, catfolk, etc, so why not bee folk? No particular aims here, just trying to grok the setting.

Also I'm just looking at what options there are in Origins... looks like you can get four arms if you splash a feat, or wings, but I'm not sure how "out there" that would be.

Like I said, any normal PF race is fine. I'd rather not use monstrous races for this game, but mods on existing races are fine. Winged elves, dragonborn dwarves, good drow on the surface, all that's fine. Something like an anthro insect is a little more out there, but if you hit me with a good backstory, I'm game.

 

Something like a full on giant bee, with bat wings, four arms, and a scorpion tail...yeah, probably a little too much. 😁

8 hours ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

If a magic item duplicates a Vancian spell that has a magic talent equivalence, do we use the rules for the spell or the talent? For example, the Deathwatch spell from a pair of Deathwatch Eyes vs. the Soul Seer talent.

It would function as the spell, unless the talent is EXACTLY IDENTICAL to the Vancian spell. Soul Seer, for example, gives additional functionality above and beyond what Deathwatch provides. So in the above instance, use the Deathwatch spell.

8 hours ago, droobles said:

But in the character creation rules it says we get extra origin talents. In fact my build is using the extra potent and phenomenal.

 

Should we use only the regular origin rules?

*FACEPALM*

Sorry, this is what happens when I post when I'm exhausted. Yes, you do get bonus Origin talents by level for this game. The game I copied all that info over from was MUCH higher powered than this one, and players had more/more powerful Origin talents. I remembered toning it down, but apparently, in my sleep fogged state, I forgot I'd left in the bonus talents per level.

Yes, you get the bonus Potent talent at 5th level, as well as the Phenomenal talent at 1st level, and if you all reach higher levels, you'll get more Origin talents.

Sorry about the confusion.

45 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

I the past I have applied with characters with these similar rules. Should I come up with something completely different due to the fact they were not chosen before. That or my app just wasn't impressive enough lol.

Welp, tossing my hat in again!

Other than the 30 points 1:1 ratio.
In the rules if you take size changes they do affect your ability scores.
Following this Monster Advancement Chart?
Finally, Do you personally have any specific preferences like, You don't like Tiny, Diminutive, or Huge, Gargantuan characters etc.
 

Chart

Table: Size Changes

Old Size*	New Size	Str	Dex	Con	Natural Armor
Fine	Diminutive	Same	–2	Same	Same
Diminutive	Tiny	+2	–2	Same	Same
Tiny	Small	+4	–2	Same	Same
Small	Medium	+4	–2	+2	Same
Medium	Large	+8	–2	+4	+2
Large	Huge	+8	–2	+4	+3
Huge	Gargantuan	+8	Same	+4	+4
Gargantuan	Colossal	+8	Same	+4	+5
* Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size.

If I went one of the above routes, I was thinking of having.

Sizeshifter [auxiliary] (Su)

You gain the change shape ability and the shapeshifter subtype. Instead of changing appearance, you can use your change shape ability to change your size category to Small or Medium (chosen when you gain this talent). Your ability scores do not change, only your size (and thus your weapon damage); normal size penalties and bonuses to AC and CMD and on attack and skill rolls apply. Changing size or returning to your true size is a full-round action. Your size in this form overrides and ignores any other effects which might change your size unless the caster succeeds at a magic skill check against 11 + your Hit Dice.

Heya SW! :)

I base my choices on the individual character. 90%+ of my decision is based on fluff. The little bit that's based on the mechanics is to see if the mechanics and fluff blend well together. I dont care about the specific mechanics, other than to make sure you stick within the creation parameters I lay out.

Only once the game has started, and the final party is chosen, do the mechanics become more important. But for the actual application process, they matter little.

AFA your mechanics question, you would use the rules outlined in the Size Change Alteration Talent. I had thought I linked it in the rules thread, but I apparently missed it. I just updated the thread with the proper link. Sorry about that.

[Steel Warrior]

3 minutes ago, Arklytte said:

Heya SW! :)

I base my choices on the individual character. 90%+ of my decision is based on fluff. The little bit that's based on the mechanics is to see if the mechanics and fluff blend well together. I dont care about the specific mechanics, other than to make sure you stick within the creation parameters I lay out.

Only once the game has started, and the final party is chosen, do the mechanics become more important. But for the actual application process, they matter little.

AFA your mechanics question, you would use the rules outlined in the Size Change Alteration Talent. I had thought I linked it in the rules thread, but I apparently missed it. I just updated the thread with the proper link. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the info. +2 Str, -2 Dex or -2 Str, +2 Dex per size increase or decrease. Thanks for the clarification.
If I end up Diminutive lol. Med/Small/Tiny/Dimsum. I would have -6 Str, +6 Dex, Potentially a Diminutive character with 6 Str, 26 Dex and taking the Sizeshifter [auxiliary] (Su), I can make myself appear Medium, and my ability scores remain the same per the wording.

Your ability scores do not change, only your size (and thus your weapon damage); normal size penalties and bonuses to AC and CMD and on attack and skill rolls apply.

[Steel Warrior]

1) Another clarification. Sorry!

• You may become Large or Tiny at the cost of Three Potent Talents, or Two Phenomenal Potent Talents.
• You may become Huge or Diminutive at the cost of Five Potent Talents, or Three Phenomenal Potent Talents.
  
  If I go from base size Small to Diminutive is that 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents or 8 Potent talents or 5 Phenomenal Talents (Cost of 2 size changes combined).

2) In regards to the Extra Origin Talent. You are allowing us to use it. We can buy a Phenomenal Potent talent.

• Can you then exchange that Phenomenal Potent talent for 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary talents OR 2 Phenomenal Utility talents, OR one of each type.
   

3) If I spend Origin talents to start with the Warp Sphere (ala Specialized Training [potent] x2 for (Basic Magic training and Extra Magic Talent (warp)

Could I apply both the Mageknight Doomblade and Broadcast Blade Archetypes. The only thing that would stack is they would "normally" have to use the 1st level bonus feat for the Warp or the Destruction Sphere. There is an exception to that rule in the Archetypes.
 

Warp Warrior

The broadcast blade must choose the Warp sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Warp sphere.

Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.

and

Destructive Focus

The doomblade must choose the Destruction sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Destruction sphere.

Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.

My argument is that it alters, not replaces the talent gained at 1st level.

Any Race

Magical Training: If a character receives the Basic Magic Training feat as a racial feature, they may exchange that feat for the Extra Magic Talent feat (as normal) if and when they gain the casting class feature. The provided Extra Magic Talent feat is spent on the same sphere as was originally granted.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[namo]

2 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Sorry, this is what happens when I post when I'm exhausted. Yes, you do get bonus Origin talents by level for this game. The game I copied all that info over from was MUCH higher powered than this one, and players had more/more powerful Origin talents. I remembered toning it down, but apparently, in my sleep fogged state, I forgot I'd left in the bonus talents per level.

Yes, you get the bonus Potent talent at 5th level, as well as the Phenomenal talent at 1st level, and if you all reach higher levels, you'll get more Origin talents.

So, to make sure I understand:

Origins says what we start with

Title

two potent talents

or a single potent talent plus three auxiliary talents and a utility talent.

In either case, auxiliary talents may be selected in place of potent talents and utility talents may be selected in place of auxiliary talents.

So with the bonus talents granted by you, we have:

3 Potent talents + 1 Phenomenal talent

OR

2 Potent talents + 3 Auxiliary + 1 Utility + 1 Phenomenal talent

and from either starting set we can use your "exchange rates" (which are different from the one proposed for that one starting potent talent). Correct?

 

And an additional question: if we take Extra Origin Talent, can we get a Phenomenal Potent Talent? Or only a standard Potent Talent?

Edited October 1, 2023 by namo (see edit history)

[TheFred]

So, uh, a possible exploit? The Specialised Training Potent Talent gives you a bonus feat (far and away one of the better things to spend your Origin talents on, it seems). But that bonus feat could be used for Extra Origin Talent. That alone is fine, because you're just trading one-for-one between feats and talents... but Extra Origin Talents doesn't have any restrictions on it, so you could use that to get Phenomenal talents.

That doesn't strike me as particularly broken or anything since the Phenomenal ones mostly aren't any stronger ("Phenomenal" seems like a bad word, honestly) but it does mean that there's not much point making a distinction between them and sees to go slightly against the spirit of getting 4 regulars and only 1 Phenomenal.

Extra Origin Talent is also the only way to get more Phenomenal talents (which mostly aren't worth a feat anyway) but perhaps just we shouldn't take both the feat and Specialised Training?

9 hours ago, Arklytte said:

Something like a full on giant bee, with bat wings, four arms, and a scorpion tail...yeah, probably a little too much. 😁

Yeah, I suspect that we don't have enough talents to afford anything like that, anyway. None of those things individually seem all that out of place as compared with other PF fantasy races, though.

[Rudra]

Hello, i'm considering a tempestari build, an air based caster who use Weather and Nature, while trying to see if i can make one i've stumbled on an issue and i'd like a a gm ruling on it.

Control weather(wind) has no save, however the targets of (sufficiently strong) wind effects have to make strength checks to move/not being blown away, if i have a bonus to spell dc for [air] spells, does it apply to the DC of this strength check?

If i take the persistent metamagic feat, would it apply to this strength check, forcing the target to roll twice?

 

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

I've noticed that you've asked myself and others to give a more meaty description for our traditions. I'm not entirely sure what sort of information you're looking for in that regard, and was wondering if you could an example of what you're hoping from us. None of the ones found on the SoP site have more than a single sentence, so they're not much help.

[DreemWalker]

I'm waiting on a casting tradition approval myself. Scanning the other submissions, it looks like Inash's Forge of Dubious Work is the only one that's had its flavor text approved, though he didn't say so directly.

I think he just wants some nice descriptive flavor text pulling in all the elements you selected in your tradition.

[Steel Warrior]

I am thinking of a Ninja || MageKnight Doomblade
Name: Skeeter (Paying for a diminutive or fine sized character) So he sneak attacks with his doomblade. Technically if I have the warp sphere already (thinking casting tradition) I would be able to take both Doomblade and Broadcast Blade.

 

[Quentin Harlech]

Quote

Alignment: Dont like it, dont use it, couldn't care less about it.

Mechanically speaking, disregard all Alignment based powers and abilities as well. If a talent has an Alignment component, but otherwise has non-alignment related abilities, the Alignment based ones are disregarded but the talent otherwise works as normal. If one of your classes has an alignment restriction (ie Paladin), then I will expect you to create/borrow a Code of Conduct and follow it.

What about actual class features that are alignment based, like those from the Hedgewitch's Covenant path, or a Paladin's Smite Evil? Do those classes just lose their features without any sort of compensation?