Character Creation Q&A

[Arklytte]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:37 AM, Steel Warrior said:

Thanks for the info. +2 Str, -2 Dex or -2 Str, +2 Dex per size increase or decrease. Thanks for the clarification.
If I end up Diminutive lol. Med/Small/Tiny/Dimsum. I would have -6 Str, +6 Dex, Potentially a Diminutive character with 6 Str, 26 Dex and taking the Sizeshifter [auxiliary] (Su), I can make myself appear Medium, and my ability scores remain the same per the wording.

Your ability scores do not change, only your size (and thus your weapon damage); normal size penalties and bonuses to AC and CMD and on attack and skill rolls apply.

Mechanically, yeah, that all looks correct.

 

23 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

Another clarification. Sorry!

• You may become Large or Tiny at the cost of Three Potent Talents, or Two Phenomenal Potent Talents.
• You may become Huge or Diminutive at the cost of Five Potent Talents, or Three Phenomenal Potent Talents.
  
  If I go from base size Small to Diminutive is that 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents or 8 Potent talents or 5 Phenomenal Talents (Cost of 2 size changes combined).
  
  In regards to the Extra Origin Talent. You are allowing us to use it. We can buy a Phenomenal Potent talent.
  Can you then exchange that Phenomenal Potent talent for 2 Phenomenal Auxiliary talents OR 2 Phenomenal Utility talents, OR one of each type.

This is all correct.

 

21 hours ago, namo said:

So, to make sure I understand:

Origins says what we start with

Title

two potent talents

or a single potent talent plus three auxiliary talents and a utility talent.

In either case, auxiliary talents may be selected in place of potent talents and utility talents may be selected in place of auxiliary talents.

So with the bonus talents granted by you, we have:

3 Potent talents + 1 Phenomenal talent

OR

2 Potent talents + 3 Auxiliary + 1 Utility + 1 Phenomenal talent

and from either starting set we can use your "exchange rates" (which are different from the one proposed for that one starting potent talent). Correct?

 

And an additional question: if we take Extra Origin Talent, can we get a Phenomenal Potent Talent? Or only a standard Potent Talent?

All this is correct. And Extra Origin Talent will net you a Phenomenal Potent Talent, which you can use, or trade as per my variant rules. I updated the rules to reflect all this.

 

14 hours ago, TheFred said:

So, uh, a possible exploit? The Specialised Training Potent Talent gives you a bonus feat (far and away one of the better things to spend your Origin talents on, it seems). But that bonus feat could be used for Extra Origin Talent. That alone is fine, because you're just trading one-for-one between feats and talents... but Extra Origin Talents doesn't have any restrictions on it, so you could use that to get Phenomenal talents.

That doesn't strike me as particularly broken or anything since the Phenomenal ones mostly aren't any stronger ("Phenomenal" seems like a bad word, honestly) but it does mean that there's not much point making a distinction between them and sees to go slightly against the spirit of getting 4 regulars and only 1 Phenomenal.

Extra Origin Talent is also the only way to get more Phenomenal talents (which mostly aren't worth a feat anyway) but perhaps just we shouldn't take both the feat and Specialised Training?

Yeah, I suspect that we don't have enough talents to afford anything like that, anyway. None of those things individually seem all that out of place as compared with other PF fantasy races, though.

I mean...yeah, you could do that, but it's kinda cheesy. 😁

Heh...very true. In a universe where Minotaurs, Drow Nobility, and Centaurs are all potential PC races, a BatBeeScorpion isn't THAT out there, I suppose. 🤣

14 hours ago, Rudra said:

Hello, i'm considering a tempestari build, an air based caster who use Weather and Nature, while trying to see if i can make one i've stumbled on an issue and i'd like a a gm ruling on it.

Control weather(wind) has no save, however the targets of (sufficiently strong) wind effects have to make strength checks to move/not being blown away, if i have a bonus to spell dc for [air] spells, does it apply to the DC of this strength check?

If i take the persistent metamagic feat, would it apply to this strength check, forcing the target to roll twice?

 

Adding a DC bonus to the STR check seems reasonable. I cant find a specific ruling on it either way (not with a quick Googling, anyway), so we'll just go with that.

Again, I would say that forcing a second STR check would be reasonable with Persistent Metamagic. It's basically a save, so it makes sense.😀

14 hours ago, Boogie Woogie Wookiee said:

I've noticed that you've asked myself and others to give a more meaty description for our traditions. I'm not entirely sure what sort of information you're looking for in that regard, and was wondering if you could an example of what you're hoping from us. None of the ones found on the SoP site have more than a single sentence, so they're not much help.

This is one that I used for a character in another game I played in. Note that this particular game was INSANELY powerful (L20, Gestalt, TONS of customization), so the description is probably a bit more than y'all would need for this game. But it should give you an idea of what I'm going for.

 

EXAMPLE

In the early part of his career as a hapless mages apprentice, Aeon (or Alaric, as he was known back then) was learning to be a fairly traditional spellcasterMaterial Casting, Somatic Casting x2; Verbal Casting. He often had trouble dealing with distractionsMental Focus, and the slightest slipRigorous Concentration often spelled disaster...and seeing his spells collapse in on themselves. To aid himself, he created a device to assist with his spellcastingFocus: Hourglass Necklace: a necklace who's pendant, a tiny hourglass, he carved himself, using the skills his father taught him.

Unfortunately, despite all his best efforts, he was generally hopeless at magic, primarily owing to the 'bleedover' he occasionally "inherited" from his mother's side of the family. The accident that gave him his powers exacerbated that by several orders of magnitude, nearly destroying his mind in the processInnate Curses: Reclusive & Shattered Psyche.

Afterward, over the course of decades, the struggles that led to his becoming the ArchWizard of the Sky Islands also allowed him to, if not fully knit his mind back together, learn to overcome many of the issues his damages psyche caused himDrawback Feat x2: Curse Mastery. When he finally Ascended, such was his power and skill that magic now comes as easily as breathingEasy Focus to him.

 

14 hours ago, DreemWalker said:

I'm waiting on a casting tradition approval myself. Scanning the other submissions, it looks like Inash's Forge of Dubious Work is the only one that's had its flavor text approved, though he didn't say so directly.

I think he just wants some nice descriptive flavor text pulling in all the elements you selected in your tradition.

Apologies DW! I thought I got everyone's tradition looked at. I'll take a look at yours as soon as I'm done here.

54 minutes ago, Quentin Harlech said:

What about actual class features that are alignment based, like those from the Hedgewitch's Covenant path, or a Paladin's Smite Evil? Do those classes just lose their features without any sort of compensation?

No, of course not. I'm not an asshole...ok...well, I AM an asshole, but not THAT KIND of asshole. 😇🤣

If you have an alignment based/restricted class feature, we'll work together to modify it to something campaign appropriate. Just drop me a note in your app thread with the details (and a link to the class/ability), and we'll figure something out.

[Steel Warrior]

I added this while you were responding.

If I spend Origin talents to start with the Warp Sphere (ala Specialized Training [potent] x2 for (Basic Magic training and Extra Magic Talent (warp)

Could I apply both the Mageknight Doomblade and Broadcast Blade Archetypes. The only thing that would stack is they would "normally" have to use the 1st level bonus talent for the Warp or the Destruction Sphere. There is an exception to that rule in the Archetypes.
 

Warp Warrior

The broadcast blade must choose the Warp sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Warp sphere.
Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.
and
Destructive Focus

The doomblade must choose the Destruction sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Destruction sphere.
Author's Note: This alters the magic talent gained at 1st level.

My argument is that it alters, not replaces the talent gained at 1st level.

2nd) Also I didn't get an exact answer to the cost to go from Small to Diminutive.
 

If I go from base size Small to Diminutive is that 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents or 8 Potent talents or 5 Phenomenal Talents (Cost of 2 size changes combined).

I am assuming it's 5 Potent or 3 Phenomenal talents because 8 and 5 seem really expensive if I am paying for the full cost of tiny separately and then diminutive.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Boogie Woogie Wookiee]

Sorry for all of the questions, but I ran into something odd and wanted to make sure I was understanding it correctly.

The Bound Creature casting tradition boon grants you the Conjuration sphere so that you can not-actually-summon a familiar, or at least that seems to be the intent. But from what I can gather, it only lets you summon a Medium-sized familiar, and if you want something more traditional, it costs 2 to 3 of your magic talents to get them down to Tiny or Diminiutive size. Is this correct? Or is there some option I'm not seeing where you can just start with a smaller one? Seems an awfully huge investment for a relatively more vulnerable companion, especially given the consequences of losing it.

Please disregard! I found the answer by visiting the actual base rules your house rules were, well, based on. I'm a total derp sometimes, my apologies.

Though it did lead to another question: Is there no way to get a bird (such as a raven or owl) as a familiar? Your only limibs options are four legs or two legs/two hands, and all of the flight-granting talents seem to be Phenomenal.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Boogie Woogie Wookiee (see edit history)

[namo]

"You may choose to make a companion Small-sized instead of Medium-sized."

But you do need an extra talent (or more) to make it Tiny or smaller, yes.

[TheFred]

Oh, so we can still trade one Potent talent for three Auxiliary talents and one Utility talent, as per standard Origins, in addition to your houseruled option to swap Potent talents for two Aux + one Utility?

[TheFred]

Also, I'm not quite clear, do the stat changes for sizes apply for going to Small, as well? Standard Origins it looks like you can choose to be Small and your stats don't change?

[Steel Warrior]

3 hours ago, TheFred said:

Also, I'm not quite clear, do the stat changes for sizes apply for going to Small, as well? Standard Origins it looks like you can choose to be Small and your stats don't change?

Using the Alteration Sphere size changes. You treat yourself as medium. If you go small, you are -2 str, +2 dex. From there if you size change to smaller it's -2 str, +2 dex per step. If you go large or larger it's +2 str, -2 dex.
No other changes to con or natural armor for example.

 

AFA your mechanics question, you would use the rules outlined in the Size Change Alteration Talent. I had thought I linked it in the rules thread, but I apparently missed it. I just updated the thread with the proper link. Sorry about that.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[bcool999]

@Steel Warrior Not sure if this is the official ruling on it, but I have always read Warp Warrior and Destructive Focus as merely locking you in to certain sphere choices at 1st level. Since the Casting class feature gives you 2 free Magic Talents when you first get it, you can take Destruction with one and Warp with the other and fulfill the requirements of both Archetypes. With the rewrite into Ultimate Spheres of Power, they really should have reworded those two archetype features since the Mageknight class no longer gives a talent at 1st level outside the 2 bonus from the Casting class feature.

[Inash]

18 minutes ago, bcool999 said:

@Steel Warrior Not sure if this is the official ruling on it, but I have always read Warp Warrior and Destructive Focus as merely locking you in to certain sphere choices at 1st level. Since the Casting class feature gives you 2 free Magic Talents when you first get it, you can take Destruction with one and Warp with the other and fulfill the requirements of both Archetypes. With the rewrite into Ultimate Spheres of Power, they really should have reworded those two archetype features since the Mageknight class no longer gives a talent at 1st level outside the 2 bonus from the Casting class feature.

It's still listed on the table in the wiki for the ultimate version: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mageknight

Edit: but not in the original version

Edited October 3, 2023 by Inash (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

4 hours ago, Inash said:

It's still listed on the table in the wiki for the ultimate version: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mageknight

Edit: but not in the original version

The original had 1 (+2) on the Magic Talents slot
New version says Bonus Talent under Special and 0 (+2) on the Magic Talents slot.
Technically it's still there, but represented differently.

Although!
Old Doomblade
Destructive Focus: At 1st level, the doomblade must choose the Destruction sphere as one of his starting talents. If the Destruction sphere is already possessed, then any talents gained at 1st level may be chosen as usual. Meaning it was also including the (+2)

While Old Broadcast Blade
Warp Warrior: The broadcast blade must choose the Warp sphere with the magic talent she gains at first level, unless she already possesses the Warp sphere. Which in this case it must be the 1 (+2)

So that appears that they could have stacked using the old rules.
Other than that 1 talent at 1st, on the new or old version. No other class features overlapped.

I guess if @Arklytte would allow the interpretation of the old version. That would be cool.

Mainly I was taking Doomblade because I can take the feat to make the doomblade a reach weapon. If I am size diminutive/fine, then I have a 5' reach lol.

Reach Blade (Combat)

Prerequisites: Destruction sphere, destructive blade class feature.
Benefit: Your destructive blade may be shaped with the reach property. This property can be added or removed each time you shape the blade.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[bcool999]

Huh. I guess they wanted to keep the Mageknight’s Magic Talent progression ‘Standard’ on the table so they moved the Talent over into a Bonus Talent.
 

Probably need Arklytte to weigh in. Though considering a multiclass Mageknight could qualify for both by having one sphere or the other before their first Mageknight level then it’s odd to deny a single class one that spends the required talents. Just my 2 cp.

[Arklytte]

Apologies to everyone for not responding to questions last night/today. Been feeling super under the weather the last 36 hours or so, and my brain is currently doing the 'wandering in a fog' thing. I'm going to crash, and hopefully, once I wake up, I'll feel more like a human being, and I can get caught up on stuff.

In the meantime, please, by all means, keep the questions coming. I'll respond to everything once I'm feeling more myself.

Also, my continued thanks for everyone's interest in the game. There are some awesome characters starting to shape up, and I cant wait to see where they all go.

TTYL

[Steel Warrior]

32 minutes ago, Arklytte said:

Apologies to everyone for not responding to questions last night/today. Been feeling super under the weather the last 36 hours or so, and my brain is currently doing the 'wandering in a fog' thing. I'm going to crash, and hopefully, once I wake up, I'll feel more like a human being, and I can get caught up on stuff.

In the meantime, please, by all means, keep the questions coming. I'll respond to everything once I'm feeling more myself.

Also, my continued thanks for everyone's interest in the game. There are some awesome characters starting to shape up, and I cant wait to see where they all go.

TTYL

Thanks for putting this together. I am sure when the dust clears, there will be four wonderful chosen and a trail of broken hearts lol.

[Rudra]

Hello, i've stumbled on another(minor) issue and i'd like a ruling on it:

For background reasons I'll take the Oath of loyalty(to nazana's deity) and integral oath feat(for said loyalty oath)

It's a central element of the character so i'll take it in any case, however in the house rules it say "you may trade 1 feat for 2 oath points"

Now, integral oath is a feat that impose extra restrictions and grant 1 oath point, could it get the same treatment as the house rule and grant 2 oath points instead of 1?

 

as alternative, can i take integral oath as a drawback, without the bonus oath point? basically taking only the restrictions

[bcool999]

@Rudra Check out the Integral Oath Boon in the spheres wiki. It gives you the effect of the Integral Oath feat while using the bonus Oath Point to pay for itself.