Character Creation

[Steel Warrior]

I did not see how Hit Points will be calculated.

I am a blind native american gunslinging fighter - monk 😛

[Eborne1]

Re: Hit Points: Ah yes.  Lets go with MAX HP for the first 3 levels, then roll and keep the upper half for levels 4+.  Use the larger of the classes HD+Con... So D10, except in the case someone takes Barbarian when they'll use D12 (on those levels).

Re: Blind Gun Monk:  Nice... I dig.  "No gun flurries please," says the fun-spoiling DM.   

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Eborne1 (see edit history)

[BBK]

Any chance at all of using either the Sobolt (PFSRD) or Soulgunner (Studio M - November 2021 Compilation) Soulknife archetypes, or the Mecha Sentinel (Arcforge: Technology Expanded) Aegis Archetype instead of Gunslinger? Asking for obviously thematical reasons. :)

Soulknife and Aegis are also the only PF classes I'm actually familiar with. So if not, and I need to read up on Gunslinger to apply (I totally will, if needed), my next question would be: Are the Aegis class and/or Soulknife class at least acceptable to Gestalt with? While the 'Gun related' archetpyes might be off the table, I'm looking more at the armor options for either of them for the gestalt portion. Especially the Aegis, for the level of customization.

[Steel Warrior]

46 minutes ago, BBK said:

Any chance at all of using either the Sobolt (PFSRD) or Soulgunner (Studio M - November 2021 Compilation) Soulknife archetypes, or the Mecha Sentinel (Arcforge: Technology Expanded) Aegis Archetype instead of Gunslinger? Asking for obviously thematical reasons. 🙂

Soulknife and Aegis are also the only PF classes I'm actually familiar with. So if not, and I need to read up on Gunslinger to apply (I totally will, if needed), my next question would be: Are the Aegis class and/or Soulknife class at least acceptable to Gestalt with? While the 'Gun related' archetpyes might be off the table, I'm looking more at the armor options for either of them for the gestalt portion. Especially the Aegis, for the level of customization.

You don't have to be a gunslinger, it's just that it's "guns everywhere". And well the GM will have to say if he's allowing 3rd party content, but it doesn't seem likely based on what he's turned down so far.

[KingGoblin]

7 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

You don't have to be a gunslinger, it's just that it's "guns everywhere". And well the GM will have to say if he's allowing 3rd party content, but it doesn't seem likely based on what he's turned down so far.

You do, though.  Character creation rules say primary class must be gunslinger.

[Eborne1]

@BBK Unfortunately, I must decline those class expansion requests.  Keeping Gunslinger as the primary class and keeping the guns mundane is important to me for thematic reasons and party balance reasons.  If you are feeling a little handicapped from the normal Gestalt-building tendency to create a lot of synchronicity between the two classes, it's because I've tried to make it that way intentionally. Ideally, I'm looking to create a party of Pure Gunslingers... who each ALSO has their own special niche and completely separate mode of combat, as opposed to a bunch of super soldiers. Also, I want to keep the game dirty and rustic.  Mech suits and ectoplasm are a bit anti-thematic for the way I envision the game.          

[The Foiler]

I am assuming we have access to early and advanced firearms but not modern firearms, like the Nagant revolver and such?

[BBK]

2 hours ago, Eborne1 said:

@BBK Unfortunately, I must decline those class expansion requests.  Keeping Gunslinger as the primary class and keeping the guns mundane is important to me for thematic reasons and party balance reasons.  If you are feeling a little handicapped from the normal Gestalt-building tendency to create a lot of synchronicity between the two classes, it's because I've tried to make it that way intentionally. Ideally, I'm looking to create a party of Pure Gunslingers... who each ALSO has their own special niche and completely separate mode of combat, as opposed to a bunch of super soldiers. Also, I want to keep the game dirty and rustic.  Mech suits and ectoplasm are a bit anti-thematic for the way I envision the game.          

Understandable. One of these days I'm going to be able to play a Soulgunner or Mech Sentinal, *wistful sigh*, just not today.

You don't have any house rules about multiple archetpyes that don't sub out the same class features, do you? 

 

Currently debating on gestalting Witch for the Prehensile Hair hex to reload dual pistols with a truly magnificent mustache, or possibly with Alchemist (Grenadier) to pick up the Vestigial Arm to do something similar at level 4 instead, but play with some bombs in the meantime... no rules against mustache-facilitated gun reloading, right? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by BBK (see edit history)

[Eborne1]

@The Foiler

Advanced Firearms only... (for now 👀) 

I'll homebrew to expand on those options. 

--> Handguns can be Semi-Autos (1d6 x3 w/ 10 rounds at 30ft (maybe a small rapid-fire perk) or Revolvers (1d8 x4 w/ 6 rounds at 40ft)  

--> Rifles can be Semi-Auto (1d10 x3 w 20 rounds at 80ft) (mb a small rapid-fire perk)  Bolt Action 2d6(19-20)x4 at 120ft??  

--> Shotguns (as listed)

--> Others?
 

(suggestions welcome) (this will all need to be balanced before it's mandated) (I'll polish this up and post it to a homebrew rules page)

Edited May 3, 2023 by Eborne1 (see edit history)

[Eborne1]

15 minutes ago, BBK said:

no rules against mustache-facilitated gun reloading, right? 🙂

I never thought I'd be asked such a question lol... That all sounds fair, so far as I can see. 

[Steel Warrior]

Oh.. I see.. I went with the Fighter - Trench fighter as my primary and monk as my gestalt. You didn't say no, so I misunderstood.

I don't really feel like changing my classes, if that's the case, I can withdraw for now.

[BBK]

10 hours ago, Eborne1 said:

I never thought I'd be asked such a question lol... That all sounds fair, so far as I can see. 

Mauahaha! *goes to twirl his theoretical 10' long mustache...but decides to just let it twirl itself villainously*

So, Double gestalt progression for specific class features - how exactly does that work? With only 1 level of the gestalt class, do you simply count as level 2 for the specified class features that scale, or do you get the class features you would normally get at level 2 that directly upgrade or affect the specified class features from level 1?

For example, an Alchemist normally gets a number of Bombs equal to their Alchemist Class Level + Int Mod, so that is a clear scaling feature of counting as a level 2 Alchemist - easy to understand. However, at Level 2 of the Alchemist Grenadier archetype, you get the 'Precise Bombs' discovery as a bonus that directly upgrades the original Bombs class feature - do you receive that as well because you count as 'double progression' for Alchemist, since it upgrades the specified class feature, 'Bombs'?

Also, any chance that you would allow an Alchemist to choose to scale Mutegens instead of Brew Potions? Most of the archetypes trade away one or the other, so being able to scale just Brew Potions makes half of the archetypes much less valuable in terms of gestalt potential. A couple archetypes trade away both Bombs and Brew Potions, but none of them trade all three, so adding Mutegens as an option would leave some scaling for almost all the archetypes.

Edited May 3, 2023 by BBK (see edit history)

[Eborne1]

4 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

Oh.. I see.. I went with the Fighter - Trench fighter as my primary and monk as my gestalt. You didn't say no, so I misunderstood.

I don't really feel like changing my classes, if that's the case, I can withdraw for now.

 

[Eborne1]

@BBK The class abilities that scale at double class level work as you described in your first example.  (Only the variables and upgrades that scale as described in the ability itself... Not upgrades to that ability from other sources) 

*Exempting Druid Wild shape, that only gets part of the ability.  

The level two ability for grenadier for example replaces poison use which is an ability you would get at level two alchemist and so doesn't apply to the double rule even though the ability applies to bombs.  

Mutagen can be added to the DOUBLE list. But again, only the 10 minute increments per class level described in the original ability.   

Abilities in archetypes that trade away bombs or mutagens etc... Can be negotiated on a case-by-case basis.    As with other classes that trade away those key abilities described to be doubled.  

I hope this clears things up.  

[BBK]

Makes sense to me - thank you for clarifying!

As traits are allowed, how is the Well Provisioned Adventurer trait handled when starting at level 3 instead of level 1? Just use WBL and subtract the maximum starting gold?

Would straight pistol-whipping someone with gun be using an 'improvised weapon' since it is being improvisationally used as a light mace or something? I know this sounds silly, but I swear it is a legitimate build question (lol) - debating on just taking traits/feats to help fight with 'improvised weapons' and pistol-whip people rather than trying to figure out a 'backup' melee weapon. "What do you mean 'how' I'mma win? Bombs, ya idjit! If that doesn't work...Bullets! And if that doesn't work...I'mma just pistol-whip that there sonm'bish!"

If you take the Firebrand archetype, and gestalt Alchemist, you'd have two sets of bomb types - would bomb-related Alchemist Discoveries affect both types? Levels in either class specifically do not stack with each other for damage progression, but both are considered 'Alchemist Bombs' (firebrand Level -4 for progression), with the normal set being keyed off Int and the Firebrand version keying off Cha instead for number of bombs, splash DC, and extra damage.

Edited May 3, 2023 by BBK (see edit history)