Questions

[Rudolf]

Y’all will just have to push Intelligence (gasp)

[Divinedragonslayer]

4 hours ago, joran1313 said:

I wouldn't think you would have to if you don't really want to, but it is fun to do so! What kind of concept are you trying for? Maybe one of us can help you give you an idea what to pair it with.

I'm thinking of a cleric from Nidala to be honest. I'm tentatively going fighter but I'm really not married to it.

[Grudge]

Well, depending on what Cleric you plan to run Fighter might not be the worst. Frontliner Cleric with Shield would definitely benefit from Fighters d10, bonus, and special feats, not sure it would be my first choice but it is viable.

Edited April 22 by Grudge (see edit history)

[Delia2531]

9 hours ago, Steel Warrior said:

Would you consider doing the same for Open Minded

3.5 Version
Open Minded [General]You are naturally able to reroute your memory, mind, and skill expertise.
Benefit

You immediately gain an extra 5 skill points. You spend these skill points as normal. If you spend them on a cross-class skills they count as ½ ranks. You cannot exceed the normal maximum ranks for your level in any skill.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you immediately gain another 5 skill points.

Vs. Dreamscarred Press PF Version

Open MindedYou are naturally able to reroute your memory, mind, and skill expertise.

Benefit: You gain 1 skill point for every Hit Die you possess. You gain 1 skill point whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level). You spend these skill points as normal. You cannot exceed the normal maximum point for your level in any skill.
 

As Blue Jay said, if a 3.5 version of a feat exists, and is from an approved source, then that's the one to use.

Edited April 22 by Delia2531 (see edit history)

[Rudolf]

I personally dislike 5e skills. I don’t feel there are enough of them, to be honest, and in practice Acrobatics and Athletics are the same skill.
 

I think Pathfinder 1e did us an amazing service by making sure skills are roughly equivalent.

[Steel Warrior]

36 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

I personally dislike 5e skills. I don’t feel there are enough of them, to be honest, and in practice Acrobatics and Athletics are the same skill.
 

I think Pathfinder 1e did us an amazing service by making sure skills are roughly equivalent.

There's a big difference between Acrobatics and Athletics. One person can be good at both, but there is a huge difference between strength and dexterity in mechanics.

Imagine a hulking bodybuilder with low dex trying to do somersaults or an dexterous person with low strength trying to lift 400lbs with ease.

Balance/Tumble = Acrobatics. Jump, Climb & Swim = Athletics. Of course the exception for tiny creatures, they are so small that they get to use dex for str climb checks.

Monkeys have a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. They can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb checks.

[Rudolf]

Steel, in theory, you’re 100% right. In practice, at 90% of the games I’ve played, when someone asks ‘Can I use Athletics instead?’ the answer is yes. I don’t understand why it happens so often.

[Steel Warrior]

33 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

Steel, in theory, you’re 100% right. In practice, at 90% of the games I’ve played, when someone asks ‘Can I use Athletics instead?’ the answer is yes. I don’t understand why it happens so often.

Ah ok. I think it's up to the GM then. My GM is pretty straight forward in my tabletop game. I don't think I ever asked my DM if I could use one for the other lol.

I did actually take a feat so I could use dex for str based skills though, because I only had a 8 or 10 strength but like a 22 dex.

Agile Athlete (races of wild) and PF Graceful Athlete

Edited April 22 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Sohala]

Just to confirm:

Whatever class is slotted on the opposite side of a Bloodline level will not receive the effective increase to its class level. Per the no double progression clause.

[Rudolf]

3 hours ago, Sohala said:

Just to confirm:

Whatever class is slotted on the opposite side of a Bloodline level will not receive the effective increase to its class level. Per the no double progression clause.

I think so. An example would help me be sure.

[Sohala]

6 hours ago, Rudolf said:

I think so. An example would help me be sure.

Fighter 1 // Wizard 1
Cleric 1 // Wizard 1
Cleric 2 // Bloodline 1

Effective Fighter FL 2
Effective Wizard CL 3
Effective Cleric CL 2 (vs CL 3)

Edited April 22 by Sohala (see edit history)

[Rudolf]

Here’s what I found:
 

A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters.

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.

---

So, I would say that it’s Ftr 1, Clr 2, Wiz 3** for class level, because the bloodline is on the ‘wrong’ side compared to fighter. Your wizard caster level is 3, but you do NOT automatically get 2nd level spells or more spells. You just get better at spells like magic missile.

[Sohala]

Okay, I wasn't aware that 'sides' were being enforced.
Is there something that prevents classes from jumping sides other than terrible organization?
Do we need PrC qualifications to be met by the given 'side'?

Sorry, I should have written that out for clarity's sake. CL was caster level and FL was fighter level (for fighter feats). By your response though, it appears I was correct in my assessment. The cleric in the example gets the normal increase of class features from the gained level, but does not get an effective increase from the bloodline portion, even though it would not exceed the character level.

 

[Rudolf]

32 minutes ago, Sohala said:

Okay, I wasn't aware that 'sides' were being enforced.
Is there something that prevents classes from jumping sides other than terrible organization?
Do we need PrC qualifications to be met by the given 'side'?

Sorry, I should have written that out for clarity's sake. CL was caster level and FL was fighter level (for fighter feats). By your response though, it appears I was correct in my assessment. The cleric in the example gets the normal increase of class features from the gained level, but does not get an effective increase from the bloodline portion, even though it would not exceed the character level.

 

1) I can’t think offhand of a case where wizard // cleric gets you different benefits than cleric // wizard. It’s mostly to help GMs and mods make sense of what you’re doing.
2) No, but it will be easier in most cases to meet, say, a +6 BAB on the fighter side than the psion side.

[Delia2531]

I think there's quite a bit to unpack in this. The first thing to note is that here at RFT you can't use a feat to give you an effective level in a class higher than your character level. So if you went:

Cleric 1 || Wizard 1
Cleric 2 || Wizard 2
Cleric 3 || Bloodline 1
then (assuming we go with the 'bloodlines count for all classes bit) you would be a Wizard with the spells and spell slots of a L2 Wizard, but your caster level would be 3 (off the top of my head Spell Resistance and potions use this); and you would be a L3 Cleric for spells and spell slots, and your cleric caster level would also be 3. It can't go to 4 because you aren't level 4 and, I would argue, even if your next level didn't include Cleric it can't bump you up later because you can't gain the same bonus twice in a level (Gestalt is all unique, and best of overlapping so if you get a boost to your Cleric CL from Cleric at L3 you can't also get it from Bloodline at L3 and you can't carry it over).

 

In your example, therefore, you'd be a L2 Wizard with a CL of 3, a L2 Cleric with a CL of 2, and a L1 Fighter who would be considered L2 where levels of Fighter are a pre-requisite.

It probably matters more for Rogues? I recall , but can't quickly find, something that says "... unless by a Rogue of level X or higher"; Bloodline levels would count towards that requirement.